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#13556 - 11/19/07 08:13 AM Re: *** FunkyBeat's VS CD Backup to WAV detailed GUIDE ***
gbuzzr Offline
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Registered: 12/10/02
Posts: 4789
Loc: nw Ohio
Man, I'm gonna take the dive when I can wrap my head around all this!
I've been looking to convert my 1880 files to wave so I can try some mixing in Cool Edit Pro, and a few other programs. How is reaper anyway?

Pros / cons? Anyone?

Thanks again Funky (BTW, How ya been?) Bear, and all the others for really diving in and doing it...as opposed to dreaming!
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#13557 - 11/28/07 09:06 PM Re: *** FunkyBeat's VS CD Backup to WAV detailed GUIDE ***
twoifbysea Offline
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Registered: 11/28/07
Posts: 15
Loc: Grass Valley, CA
Anyone have a copy and or link to the "VS Backup Ripper"? The link in this tread is invalid. Thanks.
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#13558 - 11/28/07 10:05 PM Re: *** FunkyBeat's VS CD Backup to WAV detailed GUIDE ***
twoifbysea Offline
Space Cadet


Registered: 11/28/07
Posts: 15
Loc: Grass Valley, CA
Disregard my above post. After looking thru this thread again I found what I needed.
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#13559 - 12/21/07 04:01 PM Re: *** FunkyBeat's VS CD Backup to WAV detailed GUIDE ***
kbancroft Offline
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Registered: 09/15/03
Posts: 29
Loc: San Franciso Bay Area
Long time member.. LOOOONG time. So forgive my ingnorance here; but in creating WAV files, is a separate desk top or laptop required ? Or should I read this thread ? (all 317 posts) Or is there a specific post that would be of help ? Thanks for your patience.. - Kent
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#13560 - 12/21/07 04:20 PM Re: *** FunkyBeat's VS CD Backup to WAV detailed GUIDE ***
FunkyBeat Offline
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Registered: 05/08/02
Posts: 6185
Loc: Tulsa, Oklahoma
Hello Kent,

You do need a pc to convert the VS files to wavs. Everything you need to know to accomplish that is in the very first post. ;\)
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#13561 - 12/29/07 09:23 AM Re: *** FunkyBeat's VS CD Backup to WAV detailed GUIDE ***
Ptr Offline
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Registered: 01/03/05
Posts: 260
Loc: the Netherlands
Thanks a lot, cheers to Randygo, Bear and Danielo! And to FunkyBeat & airproofing for documenting this all in an easy to grasp manner!

My VSR-880 has been collecting dust the last year, glad I checked in to see what was new w.r.t.'the problem' \:\)

That's right, ithe 'Reaper-route' works mighty fine on a VSR-880, dunno if that has been confirmed yet (44k1, 'VSR' recording mode, backup-CDRWs).

And it works with a Zip-100 as well.

For some reason the VS Wave Export route doesn't work, the drive & data on the Zip-100 is found but when the conversion is started it gives 'Unknown Format'. Same for data from backup CDRW. OK, too bad, but by Reaper it working, so...


Regards & thanks again!

Peter
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#13562 - 12/29/07 09:25 AM Re: *** FunkyBeat's VS CD Backup to WAV detailed GUIDE ***
Ptr Offline
Planeteer


Registered: 01/03/05
Posts: 260
Loc: the Netherlands
It'd be cool if there's some SCSI-to-USB thingy that you plug onto the VSR-880 SCSI-port, then you could simply take a multitrack session home on a USB-stick of a few GB. Anybody tried something like that perhaps ?


Bye,

Peter
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#647227 - 01/08/08 02:10 PM Re: *** FunkyBeat's VS CD Backup to WAV detailed GUIDE *** [Re: FunkyBeat]
FunkyBeat Offline
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Registered: 05/08/02
Posts: 6185
Loc: Tulsa, Oklahoma
Hello Hook or Flatcat,

Can you make this post a sticky again? I also see that it lost all the main information during the switch-over. That's okay, I still have it so I'll update it later.

Thanks guys!
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#647876 - 01/09/08 07:09 PM Re: *** FunkyBeat's VS CD Backup to WAV detailed GUIDE *** [Re: FunkyBeat]
Goober Offline
Planeteer


Registered: 01/09/08
Posts: 41
Hello to all, I have been doing live mixing for 7 years now and wanted to get into studio/home recording. So I went and purchased a VS 1680 (cheap now). I also bought an effect card and plextor burner. I was a bit worried about how I would get the VS files onto the PC so I could "fiddle" with them on my PC mixing program. I have been searching the internet for a week now until I came across this site. I couldn't believe what I was reading, I think that this forum and this topic is absolute gold. A special thanks goes to guys who made the programs (invested heaps of there time and lives) available for us to use.
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#648117 - 01/10/08 09:51 AM Re: *** FunkyBeat's VS CD Backup to WAV detailed GUIDE *** [Re: Goober]
Ptr Offline
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Registered: 01/03/05
Posts: 260
Loc: the Netherlands
After everything worked fine, the next step was to record a rehearsal on the internal drive and transfer that to an external SCSI-HDD.
Weird problem though, the copying seems to proceed fine but nothing actually arrives, the target disk remains empty...

The 1GB partition of the internal IDE is about full (some 15 track minutes left), may that be the problem ? I'm copying to
a 1GB partition on the external SCSI as well, but are then not all 1GB-partitions equal in size ?

I'll try to shorted the original recording and copy again, but don't want to risk I destroy it and end up with nothing...

Thanks,

Peter
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#648288 - 01/10/08 04:12 PM Re: *** FunkyBeat's VS CD Backup to WAV detailed GUIDE *** [Re: Ptr]
uptildawn Offline
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Registered: 12/15/01
Posts: 8182
Loc: Iowa
I don't have an immediate answer, but why are you working with such small partitions? Not that you can use LARGE partitions, but why not max them out at 2 gig? and give yourself some breathing room.


DanT
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2013 Iowa City JazzFest sets!
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#648290 - 01/10/08 04:15 PM Re: *** FunkyBeat's VS CD Backup to WAV detailed GUIDE *** [Re: uptildawn]
uptildawn Offline
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Registered: 12/15/01
Posts: 8182
Loc: Iowa
Also, go into the system (or global?) menu and change your disc space reading to size left instead of minutes and you'll have a better picture to deal with when figuring out available and copy space... in my opinion. Afterall, your song size is shown in megabytes, so easier to compare megs to megs when sizing things up.

Just a thought.
danT
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uptildawn

2013 Iowa City JazzFest sets!
Dr Lonnie Smith Trio w/Jonathan Kreisberg on guitar
Pharoah Sanders Quartet
Fred Hersch Trio
These are post mixes set to single camera video (by Rich Rauch).

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#648299 - 01/10/08 04:33 PM Re: *** FunkyBeat's VS CD Backup to WAV detailed GUIDE *** [Re: uptildawn]
Ptr Offline
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Registered: 01/03/05
Posts: 260
Loc: the Netherlands
 Originally Posted By: uptildawn
I don't have an immediate answer, but why are you working with such small partitions? Not that you can use LARGE partitions, but why not max them out at 2 gig? and give yourself some breathing room.


DanT


Hi,

Thanks for the response and apologies for 'deliberately misposting': my Roland is a VSR-880, so partitions of 1GB max.
Thought I'd still post here since relevant to this subject of 'going-to-PC'.

Problem solved/circumvented now: I shaved a few minutes off (it was a rehearsal-recording of 1hour 37 minutes, made that into 1h33m, optimized and saved and the whole shebang could be copied to the external SCSI-HDD).

Still weird, since that song is about half the partition size, should have fitted the destination-drive easily (I verified it's indeed formatted as 1GB-partitions).

Thanks,

Peter
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#648301 - 01/10/08 04:35 PM Re: *** FunkyBeat's VS CD Backup to WAV detailed GUIDE *** [Re: uptildawn]
Ptr Offline
Planeteer


Registered: 01/03/05
Posts: 260
Loc: the Netherlands
 Originally Posted By: uptildawn
Also, go into the system (or global?) menu and change your disc space reading to size left instead of minutes and you'll have a better picture to deal with when figuring out available and copy space... in my opinion. Afterall, your song size is shown in megabytes, so easier to compare megs to megs when sizing things up.

Just a thought.
danT


Thanks for the suggestion, need to check for such a thing in the VSR-880 and/or if I don't already have it in that format. (I'm not near the machine now)

Regards,

Peter
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#648512 - 01/10/08 10:36 PM Re: *** FunkyBeat's VS CD Backup to WAV detailed GUIDE *** [Re: Ptr]
uptildawn Offline
Planeteer


Registered: 12/15/01
Posts: 8182
Loc: Iowa
880 and 1680 default to time left in the song info page. I always end up changing it in a new song to capacity MB... Just looked it up in the 1680 manual. It's under System menu/ Remain display (on page 2).

DanT
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uptildawn

2013 Iowa City JazzFest sets!
Dr Lonnie Smith Trio w/Jonathan Kreisberg on guitar
Pharoah Sanders Quartet
Fred Hersch Trio
These are post mixes set to single camera video (by Rich Rauch).

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#652504 - 01/21/08 06:38 PM Re: *** FunkyBeat's VS CD Backup to WAV detailed GUIDE *** [Re: uptildawn]
Platinum1 Offline
Space Cadet


Registered: 12/27/07
Posts: 1
Hello All VSers, I have to agree that this is one of the best things I have ever stumbled upon. It has brought my Vs back to life. Much Luv to the cats that put there time into this. Now lets make music.
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#654827 - 01/27/08 06:39 PM Re: *** FunkyBeat's VS CD Backup to WAV detailed GUIDE *** [Re: Platinum1]
Ptr Offline
Planeteer


Registered: 01/03/05
Posts: 260
Loc: the Netherlands
Anybody had the weird sensation yet of find tracks back in Reaper at high speed (& pitch) ?

Tracks played back fine&correct on the Roland (VSR880), then copied to SCSI-HDD & imported into Reaper (v2.032) and hmmm....
hi-speed versions...

samplerate 44.1k everywhere, so I'm puzzled....
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#655087 - 01/28/08 05:45 PM Re: *** FunkyBeat's VS CD Backup to WAV detailed GUIDE *** [Re: Ptr]
Ptr Offline
Planeteer


Registered: 01/03/05
Posts: 260
Loc: the Netherlands
Sorry for bringing this up again once more, but it's SO weird:

tracks from VS-machine copied to ext SCSI-HDD, and verified that they all play back correctly from the SCSI-HDD attached to the Roland.

Then I connect the SCSI-HDD to my PC, import into Reaper and the latest bunch of songs is at the wrong speed in the PC

As a sanity check there's still a previously succesfully transferred song, so re-did that one an it's fine again...

So all songs played back correctly from the Roland + SCSI-HDD,
then I bring them into Reaper and then all new ones play back way faster...
... it must be something simple...
... it must be something simple...

... but what ?

I've checked, the speed-up ratio is consistent: +45%

So setting for instance 'Rate' in reaper at (1/1.45 =) around 0.69 'fixes' the issue... but it doesn't solve it.

What's that ratio of 1.45... doesn't seem to be an obvious ratio between sample-frequencies...

Any ideas appreciated!

Regards,

Peter

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#655230 - 01/29/08 02:11 AM Re: *** FunkyBeat's VS CD Backup to WAV detailed GUIDE *** [Re: Ptr]
Danielo Offline
Planeteer


Registered: 10/25/05
Posts: 493
Loc: Austria
hi,

must be some strange value in the song.vr file. Looks like the reaper plugin thinks its 64k instead of 44.1k (44.1 * 1.45 = ~64.0)

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#655231 - 01/29/08 02:37 AM Re: *** FunkyBeat's VS CD Backup to WAV detailed GUIDE *** [Re: Danielo]
Ptr Offline
Planeteer


Registered: 01/03/05
Posts: 260
Loc: the Netherlands
 Originally Posted By: Danielo
hi,

must be some strange value in the song.vr file. Looks like the reaper plugin thinks its 64k instead of 44.1k (44.1 * 1.45 = ~64.0)


Hi Danielo,

Thanks for responding!

So 64k is some 'valid' sample-frequency as well ? I realize it's 2*32k, but dunno if.... well, anyway, do you expect it's already gone wrong in the VSR-880 itself (despite the correct playback)

How could I correct it ? Can I perhaps edit a song-file in the DAW to correct that sample-freq setting ?

Setting 'Rate' in Reaper to ~0.69 gives the correct playback speed & pitch, but sounds 'wrong' to me (could be by imagination, but I guess there's some processing involved then)

Thanks,

Peter


Edited by Ptr (01/29/08 02:41 AM)
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#655290 - 01/29/08 09:16 AM Re: *** FunkyBeat's VS CD Backup to WAV detailed GUIDE *** [Re: Ptr]
Danielo Offline
Planeteer


Registered: 10/25/05
Posts: 493
Loc: Austria
Peter,

you would need to tweak the Song.VR file. I don't know which byte atm but could find out tomorrow. Are you familiar with editing single bytes in non text files?

I think its not 'wrong' for the VS, its just something that we do not know yet. You know, all the stuff was reverse engineered, so things like that may happen.

cheers.

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#655296 - 01/29/08 09:34 AM Re: *** FunkyBeat's VS CD Backup to WAV detailed GUIDE *** [Re: Danielo]
Ptr Offline
Planeteer


Registered: 01/03/05
Posts: 260
Loc: the Netherlands
 Originally Posted By: Danielo
Peter,

you would need to tweak the Song.VR file. I don't know which byte atm but could find out tomorrow. Are you familiar with editing single bytes in non text files?

I think its not 'wrong' for the VS, its just something that we do not know yet. You know, all the stuff was reverse engineered, so things like that may happen.

cheers.


Hi Danielo,

I'm not familiar with editing in non-text files but vaguely recall some programs that show the raw data & the hex-translation, something like that.

If it's as 'simple' as searching for some certain sample-freq value & changing that into something like 44.1 (in HEX-equivalents) then I guess I could do the trick. Which program could I use ? Or is there some pre- & post processing required to edit the song-file ?

Thanks again,

Peter

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#655327 - 01/29/08 10:40 AM Re: *** FunkyBeat's VS CD Backup to WAV detailed GUIDE *** [Re: Ptr]
bear Offline
Planeteer


Registered: 10/25/99
Posts: 6225
Loc: abq,nm,usa
I agree with Danielo that it sounds like roland has thrown another curve and changed something about this particular file format such that the sample rate is being read improperly..

The SONG.VRx file should be pretty small, why don't you email it to Danielo and myself - maybe one of us can see what the problem is. Or email it to me and I will forward to Danielo.

BTW what is the recording mode you have set on the VSR880?

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#655332 - 01/29/08 11:03 AM Re: *** FunkyBeat's VS CD Backup to WAV detailed GUIDE *** [Re: bear]
Ptr Offline
Planeteer


Registered: 01/03/05
Posts: 260
Loc: the Netherlands
 Originally Posted By: bear
I agree with Danielo that it sounds like roland has thrown another curve and changed something about this particular file format such that the sample rate is being read improperly..


Thanks for chiming in

Note that nothing has really changed on the Roland between the first song I converted and the more recent conversions. OK yes, the older one was 2 tracks and the recent three songs each 6 tracks (no virtual tracks anywhere).
Maybe that triggered the weird speed-up in Reaper?

 Quote:
The SONG.VRx file should be pretty small, why don't you email it to Danielo and myself - maybe one of us can see what the problem is. Or email it to me and I will forward to Danielo.

Nice, will happily send it to you both once I'm again near my DAW (in a few hours).
We'll do that by means of PM & then e-mail exchange, right ? (sorry, might have overlooked a more direct email-possibility)

 Quote:
BTW what is the recording mode you have set on the VSR880?

It's the VSR-mode, @ 44k1Hz

Thanks,

Peter

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#655486 - 01/29/08 04:56 PM Re: *** FunkyBeat's VS CD Backup to WAV detailed GUIDE *** [Re: bear]
Ptr Offline
Planeteer


Registered: 01/03/05
Posts: 260
Loc: the Netherlands
 Originally Posted By: bear
The SONG.VRx file should be pretty small, why don't you email it to Danielo and myself - maybe one of us can see what the problem is. Or email it to me and I will forward to Danielo.

Hi,

I saw the SONG.VR7 file is just 20 bytes
Hope that's big enough to contain any relevant data for this issue.

So while at it I've uploaded all VR7-files (except for the bulky TAKE***.VR7 files) and zipped them.


This is the one that went OK in Reaper (2 tracks):
VSR880_song_normal_speed.zip (31kB)


This is the one that was 45% faster in Reaper (6 tracks):
VSR880_song_hi_speed.zip (31kB)


Thanks for having a look, much appreciated !

Peter



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#655674 - 01/29/08 10:13 PM Re: *** FunkyBeat's VS CD Backup to WAV detailed GUIDE *** [Re: Ptr]
bear Offline
Planeteer


Registered: 10/25/99
Posts: 6225
Loc: abq,nm,usa
Were both the song that works and the song that does not work the same recording mode in the VSR?
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#655702 - 01/29/08 11:23 PM Re: *** FunkyBeat's VS CD Backup to WAV detailed GUIDE *** [Re: bear]
bear Offline
Planeteer


Registered: 10/25/99
Posts: 6225
Loc: abq,nm,usa
Ok I looked at your SONG.VR7 files - the one that works has the sample rate descriptor byte = 0x01 while the one that does not work has it set = 0x41

Why? Beats the hell out of me... much evil lurks in the minds of roland engineers...

I took your bad file and used a hex editor to change the value to 0x01, and the file imports into reaper OK at 44100


If Randygo was around I would just lay this on him and have him change his reaper .dll, but he hasn't been around for a long time. I don't think anyone else has the source to modify.

So if you want your song to work you will need to change the SONG.VR7 file with a hex editor

You will need a hex editor. I found this free one, seems to work ok. Many others out there also.

http://www.chmaas.handshake.de/delphi/freeware/xvi32/xvi32.htm#download

Download and unzip into a directory on your drive


Open up the SONG.VR7 in this editor and change the second to the last byte from 0x41 to 0x01 and save. Should work OK in reaper then.

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#655737 - 01/30/08 03:21 AM Re: *** FunkyBeat's VS CD Backup to WAV detailed GUIDE *** [Re: bear]
Ptr Offline
Planeteer


Registered: 01/03/05
Posts: 260
Loc: the Netherlands
Hi bear, thanks a lot for solving this ! \:\)

And congratulations with having the first post in the reaper-forum

 Originally Posted By: bear
Ok I looked at your SONG.VR7 files - the one that works has the sample rate descriptor byte = 0x01 while the one that does not work has it set = 0x41

Why? Beats the hell out of me... much evil lurks in the minds of roland engineers...


I'll be trying it myself immediately this evening and post how it went.

An update to the reaper.dll would be nice indeed, but for now no biggie to do that hex-edit if new songs go weird, thanks for pointing it out how to do that.


 Originally Posted By: bear
Were both the song that works and the song that does not work the same recording mode in the VSR?


Yes, both VSR-mode @ 44.1 kHz (VSR-880); the only difference being the number of used tracks (2 in the good one and 6 in the bad one).


Thanks again!

Peter
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#656680 - 01/31/08 07:35 PM Re: *** FunkyBeat's VS CD Backup to WAV detailed GUIDE *** [Re: Ptr]
Ptr Offline
Planeteer


Registered: 01/03/05
Posts: 260
Loc: the Netherlands
Long story short: it works ! Thanks bear, much appreciated !

But do read on...

 Originally Posted By: bear
Open up the SONG.VR7 in this editor and change the second to the last byte from 0x41 to 0x01 and save. Should work OK in reaper then.


I started the HEX-edit program and had a look at what you'd already seen:
Normal & Hispeed HEX-stuff

Sorry, since I wasn't completely sure which bytes I should edit
(all from the second byte on to the and including the 19th ?), I bluntly replaced the 'wrong' SONG.VR7 file for the hispeed-song by an unaltered copy of the 'correct' SONG.VR7 file.

And all went fine, no rate-correction needed anymore in Reaper \:\)

So I did just overwrite the bad file with a good one, and that these songs were having a different trackcounts
didn't seem to matter. As this HEX-dummy seems to grasp there's name-info and sample-rate in it and probably a bit more, but apart from the sample-rate and changing song-name (which doesn't show up anywhere in Reaper anyway as it seems), overwriting it did the trick.

Maybe there's more to it and won't I always get away with the blunt copy, but so far so good.

Thanks again!

Peter
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#656725 - 01/31/08 09:06 PM Re: *** FunkyBeat's VS CD Backup to WAV detailed GUIDE *** [Re: Ptr]
bear Offline
Planeteer


Registered: 10/25/99
Posts: 6225
Loc: abq,nm,usa
SECOND TO THE LAST BYTE -

See how both of your files end in 07? This is the last byte. The byte right before it is 0x41 in the bad file and 0x01 in the good one. This is the SECOND TO THE LAST (sorry I think maybe language difficulties here...)

Or to put it another way - there are 20 bytes in the files - change byte 19


Edited by bear (01/31/08 09:13 PM)

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#659212 - 02/05/08 05:05 PM Re: *** FunkyBeat's VS CD Backup to WAV detailed GUIDE *** [Re: bear]
Ptr Offline
Planeteer


Registered: 01/03/05
Posts: 260
Loc: the Netherlands
 Originally Posted By: bear
SECOND TO THE LAST BYTE -

See how both of your files end in 07? This is the last byte. The byte right before it is 0x41 in the bad file and 0x01 in the good one. This is the SECOND TO THE LAST (sorry I think maybe language difficulties here...)

Or to put it another way - there are 20 bytes in the files - change byte 19


Hi bear,

I understand it now - I goofed, I misunderstood the '2nd up to & including the 19th' and was confused by the '0x'-part.

As it seems the '41' entering the song-file is a bit random: I've transfered two other songs from a recent session (both 8-tracks, VSR, 44k1) and one had the problem, the other one didn't. Originally I thought to have the problem because of unwanted consequences of renaming the song in the VSR-880, but this time I didn't do any renmaing and still one file got sick.

Apart from the playback-speed/sample rate interpretation it seems the song.vr7 file isn't too critical. I remedied the wrong one of this latest session again by bluntly copying a previous good one over it (it was before re-reading this thread) and it went fine again.

Your method is obviously better since it won't spoil eventual song-name edits done on the Roland - and there'll be other reasons.

Thanks again,

Peter
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#659390 - 02/06/08 12:47 AM Re: *** FunkyBeat's VS CD Backup to WAV detailed GUIDE *** [Re: Ptr]
880ER Offline
Space Cadet


Registered: 02/05/08
Posts: 17
hello, so ok, I have a 880 vxpanded and a 1 gig zip drive.Does it need to be from cd or can it transfer from zip? and,Im not clear, should I expect to have to hex all the files since I have an 880? thanx.
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#659399 - 02/06/08 01:39 AM Re: *** FunkyBeat's VS CD Backup to WAV detailed GUIDE *** [Re: 880ER]
bear Offline
Planeteer


Registered: 10/25/99
Posts: 6225
Loc: abq,nm,usa
If you can see the ZIP disc on your PC (i.e. you have a ZIP drive in your PC) you can directly convert to .wav from the files on it.

You do not need to run the CD ripper in this case, just file/open the SONG.VRx file from the ZIP disc from within reaper

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#659400 - 02/06/08 01:42 AM Re: *** FunkyBeat's VS CD Backup to WAV detailed GUIDE *** [Re: bear]
bear Offline
Planeteer


Registered: 10/25/99
Posts: 6225
Loc: abq,nm,usa
Ptr - the MODE (MTP, VSR MT2 etc) is defined int the SONG.VRx file. Also the song name and the sample rate. There may be some other stuff too. I think you are better off keeping the file original as possible.
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#659408 - 02/06/08 03:16 AM Re: *** FunkyBeat's VS CD Backup to WAV detailed GUIDE *** [Re: bear]
Ptr Offline
Planeteer


Registered: 01/03/05
Posts: 260
Loc: the Netherlands
 Originally Posted By: bear
Ptr - the MODE (MTP, VSR MT2 etc) is defined int the SONG.VRx file. Also the song name and the sample rate. There may be some other stuff too. I think you are better off keeping the file original as possible.

Hi bear,

OK, will stop doing it the blunt way - and keeping some name-info valid is worth while as well.

Thanks again for solving this problem!
regards,

Peter
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