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#762334 - 09/22/08 08:55 AM am I a goner?
DrJugband Offline
Planeteer


Registered: 03/20/07
Posts: 40
Loc: Australia
tonight when I powered up I got a blank screen, then " don't match CPU". No boot up button combination would register. I've a vs840 ex with an addonics cf reader thanks to this brilliant web site. I think I may have powered down last night before she was ready. I can't get it to the point of receiving midi as the above message changes to "can't version up" and then not much else.
Were there any other steps before taking it in to a Roland repairer (if I can find one)
Melbourne Australia
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#762547 - 09/22/08 05:57 PM Re: am I a goner? [Re: DrJugband]
dhart Offline
Planeteer


Registered: 12/19/01
Posts: 569
Loc: albany, ny
If it's saying 'can't version up' then maybe reinstalling the EX upgrade would help. If you don't have a copy repost or PM me, I can email it to you.

See this link, from searching 'don't match cpu'. Not promising.

http://www.vsplanet.com/ubbthreads/ubbth...true#Post685410

Good luck

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#762601 - 09/22/08 08:07 PM Re: am I a goner? [Re: dhart]
Cornjerker Offline
Planeteer


Registered: 11/16/04
Posts: 5597
Loc: CornvILLe
IF you have your ZIP drive still, you can recover your VS-840, I believe.

First, take a ZIP 100 disk that has been formatted in your VS-840, and put it in your PC's ZIP drive. You may need to disconnect your CD/DVD drive in your PC and temporarily connect your ZIP 100 drive to your PC's 2nd IDE bus and power. Download and unzip this file http://vs840.vjam.net/vs840v205z.zip to your desktop and then COPY or DRAG and DROP the file named $SYSPRO2.VS1 to the ZIP 100 disk.

After writing the file to the ZIP 100 disk, eject it, power down your PC, remove the ZIP 100 drive and reinstall it in your VS-840.

Then follow the ROLAND SERVICE MANUAL (FEBRUARY 1999) instructions below. If installing the ZIP disk when the VS-840EX is OFF and then powering it on does NOT reinstall your OS and recover your system as described in the last instruction below, you MAY need to resort to the "Compelling Version up" procedure. It is, I believe, the same procedure a Roland Service Center Representative would do to recover your VS-840 (and charge you $150):

 Quote:
VS-840EX SYSTEM SOFTWARE UPDATE

* CAUTION!!
Do not turn off the VS-840EX during it's system software updating. If not, the program in the flash memory is destroyed. In this case, perform the compelling version-up procedure to recover it.

The VS-840 sytem software is supplied in the standard MIDI file (SMF) data format (P/No. 17048943)

Each system disk contains the following SMF data. Load these data to VS-840EX, starting with Disk 1 (VS84EX-1.MID).

VS-840EX System Ver. *.** SMF Disk 1

VS84EX-1.MID
VS84EX-2.MID
VS84EX-3.MID
VS84EX-4.MID

VS-840EX System Ver. *.** SMF Disk 2

VS84EX-5.MID
VS84EX-6.MID
VS84EX-7.MID
VS84EX-8.MID

Update the VS-840EX by following the procedure described below.

1. Connect the MIDI OUT of a MIDI sequencer capable of playing back SMF data in sequence (e.g., SB-55) to MIDI IN of VS-840EX, through a MIDI cable.

2. Holding MODE, INPUT and ENTER buttons, turn on VS-840EX.

3. The message "Receive MID-EX?" will be displayed. Press YES button.

4. Verify that "Now Waiting ..." is displayed. Playback all SMFs in the order of number.

5. The message "Version Up?" will appear. Press YES button.

6. The message "User Area Update? will appear. Press YES button.

7. When the message "END!!! Please POWER OFF/ON" appears, Turn OFF and then ON VS-840EX.

This completes updating.

Initialization, User area, VS-840EX system software update using the ZIP DISK (P/No. 17048942)

VS-480EX can also be updated by using the System Data ZIP DISK. hen using the ZIP DISK, VS-840EX can be upgraded either of the following 2 ways.

1. Using standard version-up procedure. This procedure keeps the user data unchanged (no initialization).

2. To initialize the user data or loading the factory presets, the compelling version-up procedure must be followed.

Standard version-up procedure

1. Insert the latest System Data ZIP DISK into VS-840EX ZIP drive. Turn on VS-840EX.

2. The message "Version up?" appears. Press YES button.

3. When the message "Are you sure?" appears, press YES button. The program displays "SYSTEM WRITE", indicating it starts version-up sequence.

4. Upon "END!!! Please POWER OFF/ON" message, turn OFF and then ON VS-840EX.

This completes updating.

Compelling version up

1. Holding down TR1, TR2, TR3, TR4 and RIGHT buttons, turn on VS-840EX. (NOTE: The TR1, TR2, TR3, TR4 buttons are the round buttons labeled A, B, C, D below the TRACK CUE rotary faders).

2. The message "Clear Flash?" will appear. Press YES button.

3. The message "Are you sure?" will appear. Press YES button.

4. The program displays "SYSTEM WRITE", indicating that it is clearing flash memory.

5. Upon "END!!! Please POWER OFF/ON" message, turn OFF VS-840EX.

6. Insert the System Data ZIP DISK into the drive. Holding down PLAY, REC and ENTER buttons, turn ON VS-840EX.

7. The program displays "BAD FLASH!!" and then "SYSTEM WRITE", indicating that it is starting compelling version-up sequence.

8. Upon "END!!!! Please RESET!" message, turn OFF and then ON VS-840EX.

This completes compelling updating.

To recover the unit after Error Message has been displayed

When error messge "Don't match CPU" or "Can't Version Up" has been displayed and locks up from the power off during Eject or Shut down, you need to re-load the System program. Please refer to the following procedure.

1. Insert the System Data ZIP DISK into the VS-840EX drive and then turn ON the VS-840EX.

2. The display may show "BAD FLASH!!" and then "SYSTEM WRITE.". The compelling version-up starts.

3. After "END!!! Please RESET!" is displayed, turn the power OFF and ON again.

4. Complete.


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#762611 - 09/22/08 08:18 PM Re: am I a goner? [Re: Cornjerker]
DrJugband Offline
Planeteer


Registered: 03/20/07
Posts: 40
Loc: Australia
Thanks ..I do happen to have the required formatted disc , zip drive , a powermac (which I have been able to use to upgrade to EX before), and most of today spare to play. ..wish me luck, and I'll let you know how I get on. Incidently, I rang the local repairers for post warrantee Roland gear in Melbourne (Logitronics) and they were less than interested. Cheers for now,
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#762623 - 09/22/08 08:34 PM Re: am I a goner? [Re: DrJugband]
Cornjerker Offline
Planeteer


Registered: 11/16/04
Posts: 5597
Loc: CornvILLe
PLEASE NOTE that IF you are using a ZIP 100 SYSTEM UPDATE DISK that you have used before, the 840 writes a file to the disk that says the update has already been performed, so the disk won't work a 2nd time WITHOUT deleting that file. Unfortunately I don't remember the name of the file and can't find the post(s) where JimY mentioned it in the past. It should be obvious, though.

The one you need to have in the root directory of the ZIP 100 disk is $SYSPRO2.VS1

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#762639 - 09/22/08 08:55 PM Re: am I a goner? [Re: Cornjerker]
DrJugband Offline
Planeteer


Registered: 03/20/07
Posts: 40
Loc: Australia
I think I may be in more trouble than I thought....
After finding that the unit wouldn't boot up off the disc I resorted to the Compelling version up but the TR1 TR2 TR3 TR4 & Right button combination has not brought me to the "Clear Flash?" screen. I am still getting "Don't match CPU". (I assume the 'right' button refers to the cursor buttons). I have a sinking feeling
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#762649 - 09/22/08 09:14 PM Re: am I a goner? [Re: DrJugband]
Cornjerker Offline
Planeteer


Registered: 11/16/04
Posts: 5597
Loc: CornvILLe
You put the disk in the drive with the power OFF then turned it on?
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#762657 - 09/22/08 09:27 PM Re: am I a goner? [Re: Cornjerker]
DrJugband Offline
Planeteer


Registered: 03/20/07
Posts: 40
Loc: Australia
YEP, 'fraid so
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DrJugband

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#762662 - 09/22/08 09:42 PM Re: am I a goner? [Re: DrJugband]
Cornjerker Offline
Planeteer


Registered: 11/16/04
Posts: 5597
Loc: CornvILLe
The "right" button does indeed refer to the right "cursor" button.

The only thing I can't confirm, DrJugband, is whether the ZIP disk referenced in the procedure (by part number) is the same as a ZIP disk created by copying the $SYSPRO2.VS1 file to a VS-840 formatted disk.

Is the disk you are using a '1st time' system update disk? What files are in the root directory of the disk?

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#762670 - 09/22/08 10:13 PM Re: am I a goner? [Re: Cornjerker]
DrJugband Offline
Planeteer


Registered: 03/20/07
Posts: 40
Loc: Australia
I'm using a disc that has had songs recorded on it :
The files present are..
SYSTEM.VS1
SONGLIST.VR8
SONG0001.VS1
SONG0000.VS1
$SYSPRO2.VS1
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DrJugband

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#762671 - 09/22/08 10:15 PM Re: am I a goner? [Re: DrJugband]
DrJugband Offline
Planeteer


Registered: 03/20/07
Posts: 40
Loc: Australia
I DON'T THINK THAT THE UNIT IS EVEN TAKING A LOOK AT THE FILES EVEN THOUGH the zip drive is powering up. That wouldn't explain the lack of action when trying a Compelling Version Up.
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DrJugband

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#762673 - 09/22/08 10:16 PM Re: am I a goner? [Re: DrJugband]
DrJugband Offline
Planeteer


Registered: 03/20/07
Posts: 40
Loc: Australia
which of the files could I safely erase?
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DrJugband

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#762676 - 09/22/08 10:24 PM Re: am I a goner? [Re: DrJugband]
Cornjerker Offline
Planeteer


Registered: 11/16/04
Posts: 5597
Loc: CornvILLe
Your disk is OK then - I was looking for that file that says the disk has been used before ...

You know Doc, I had one of those errors once (Can't Version Up error), a long time ago and recovered from it. I've never mentioned it because frankly it's embarrassing and I probably just lucked out. I left the disk in it that was in it when I powered improperly and flashed the on off button several times in succession while cursing at the machine. Seriously. And it recovered. Dumb luck, I guess.

What makes that a little weird in my view, is when I first installed the ACS CF drive, I had a Kingston 128Mb CF card, that wouldn't power up with the first power on, but would if I flashed the thing ON / OFF / ON and left it on. For some reason, the dumbass thing needed a pulse of juice to boot up.

So IF it is NOT working for you with a home-made system disk, that tells me the ROLAND system disk referenced by part number in the instructions I posted, is a SERVICE CENTER disk only.

So sorry it didn't work, sparky.

Jack

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#762677 - 09/22/08 10:38 PM Re: am I a goner? [Re: Cornjerker]
DrJugband Offline
Planeteer


Registered: 03/20/07
Posts: 40
Loc: Australia
I guess I am a goner. If anyone gets a hand on one of those elusive discs , I hope they share it around.
Thanks for your time and advice , Cornjerker. I'm off to jiggle my on/off button.
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DrJugband

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#763179 - 09/24/08 03:51 AM Re: am I a goner? [Re: DrJugband]
DrJugband Offline
Planeteer


Registered: 03/20/07
Posts: 40
Loc: Australia
further to the discusion so far, I've had some chats with grahamprie and have not given up hope. I contacted Roland in Sydney and got a very prompt reply. The boys there agreed that the problem probably stemmed from an interruption of power during power down (big lesson learnt there!). They have made me a system zip and have put it in the post to me! Stay tuned for the outcome and perhaps I'll be able to make the necessary files available. Thanks for all the valuable info so far.
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DrJugband

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#764139 - 09/25/08 09:48 PM Re: am I a goner? [Re: Cornjerker]
bert Offline
Planeteer


Registered: 03/09/00
Posts: 1346
Loc: Parsippany, NJ
 Originally Posted By: Cornjerker
IF you have your ZIP drive still, you can recover your VS-840, I believe.

First, take a ZIP 100 disk that has been formatted in your VS-840, and put it in your PC's ZIP drive. You may need to disconnect your CD/DVD drive in your PC and temporarily connect your ZIP 100 drive to your PC's 2nd IDE bus and power. Download and unzip this file http://vs840.vjam.net/vs840v205z.zip to your desktop and then COPY or DRAG and DROP the file named $SYSPRO2.VS1 to the ZIP 100 disk.

After writing the file to the ZIP 100 disk, eject it, power down your PC, remove the ZIP 100 drive and reinstall it in your VS-840.

Then follow the ROLAND SERVICE MANUAL (FEBRUARY 1999) instructions below. If installing the ZIP disk when the VS-840EX is OFF and then powering it on does NOT reinstall your OS and recover your system as described in the last instruction below, you MAY need to resort to the "Compelling Version up" procedure. It is, I believe, the same procedure a Roland Service Center Representative would do to recover your VS-840 (and charge you $150):

 Quote:
VS-840EX SYSTEM SOFTWARE UPDATE

* CAUTION!!
Do not turn off the VS-840EX during it's system software updating. If not, the program in the flash memory is destroyed. In this case, perform the compelling version-up procedure to recover it.

The VS-840 sytem software is supplied in the standard MIDI file (SMF) data format (P/No. 17048943)

Each system disk contains the following SMF data. Load these data to VS-840EX, starting with Disk 1 (VS84EX-1.MID).

VS-840EX System Ver. *.** SMF Disk 1

VS84EX-1.MID
VS84EX-2.MID
VS84EX-3.MID
VS84EX-4.MID

VS-840EX System Ver. *.** SMF Disk 2

VS84EX-5.MID
VS84EX-6.MID
VS84EX-7.MID
VS84EX-8.MID

Update the VS-840EX by following the procedure described below.

1. Connect the MIDI OUT of a MIDI sequencer capable of playing back SMF data in sequence (e.g., SB-55) to MIDI IN of VS-840EX, through a MIDI cable.

2. Holding MODE, INPUT and ENTER buttons, turn on VS-840EX.

3. The message "Receive MID-EX?" will be displayed. Press YES button.

4. Verify that "Now Waiting ..." is displayed. Playback all SMFs in the order of number.

5. The message "Version Up?" will appear. Press YES button.

6. The message "User Area Update? will appear. Press YES button.

7. When the message "END!!! Please POWER OFF/ON" appears, Turn OFF and then ON VS-840EX.

This completes updating.

Initialization, User area, VS-840EX system software update using the ZIP DISK (P/No. 17048942)

VS-480EX can also be updated by using the System Data ZIP DISK. hen using the ZIP DISK, VS-840EX can be upgraded either of the following 2 ways.

1. Using standard version-up procedure. This procedure keeps the user data unchanged (no initialization).

2. To initialize the user data or loading the factory presets, the compelling version-up procedure must be followed.

Standard version-up procedure

1. Insert the latest System Data ZIP DISK into VS-840EX ZIP drive. Turn on VS-840EX.

2. The message "Version up?" appears. Press YES button.

3. When the message "Are you sure?" appears, press YES button. The program displays "SYSTEM WRITE", indicating it starts version-up sequence.

4. Upon "END!!! Please POWER OFF/ON" message, turn OFF and then ON VS-840EX.

This completes updating.

Compelling version up

1. Holding down TR1, TR2, TR3, TR4 and RIGHT buttons, turn on VS-840EX. (NOTE: The TR1, TR2, TR3, TR4 buttons are the round buttons labeled A, B, C, D below the TRACK CUE rotary faders).

2. The message "Clear Flash?" will appear. Press YES button.

3. The message "Are you sure?" will appear. Press YES button.

4. The program displays "SYSTEM WRITE", indicating that it is clearing flash memory.

5. Upon "END!!! Please POWER OFF/ON" message, turn OFF VS-840EX.

6. Insert the System Data ZIP DISK into the drive. Holding down PLAY, REC and ENTER buttons, turn ON VS-840EX.

7. The program displays "BAD FLASH!!" and then "SYSTEM WRITE", indicating that it is starting compelling version-up sequence.

8. Upon "END!!!! Please RESET!" message, turn OFF and then ON VS-840EX.

This completes compelling updating.

To recover the unit after Error Message has been displayed

When error messge "Don't match CPU" or "Can't Version Up" has been displayed and locks up from the power off during Eject or Shut down, you need to re-load the System program. Please refer to the following procedure.

1. Insert the System Data ZIP DISK into the VS-840EX drive and then turn ON the VS-840EX.

2. The display may show "BAD FLASH!!" and then "SYSTEM WRITE.". The compelling version-up starts.

3. After "END!!! Please RESET!" is displayed, turn the power OFF and ON again.

4. Complete.


__________________________________



Where the hell did you find this info you beer brewing fuck?

That's a first. Great info. How's the kitchen going?
_________________________
http://www.myspace.com/inmemoryofdaveluvenguth
http://www.myspace.com/tigerrue

Songs written by my good friend Dave who past on.
vocals - Dave
guitar - Dave and Bert
Bass - Bert
Produced and Recorded - Bert
Drums - Programmed so far

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#764158 - 09/25/08 10:19 PM Re: am I a goner? [Re: bert]
Cornjerker Offline
Planeteer


Registered: 11/16/04
Posts: 5597
Loc: CornvILLe
Hey asshole! I'm gonna need some help drinking that beer so STFU or I'll keep it all to myse'f! \:p \:D As for where gets - a good bloke sent me some info - I just typed it up 'cause I'm tired of seeing 840 users take it on the chin with this stupid error ...

Kitchen is put off for a short while Bert ... sinus infection has me really whupped and dizzy - going in to scan the cat tomorrow to see what the hell is going on ... in the meantime, just doing misc. outdoor jobs none too strenuous - gettin' ready for winter - smoking my little cigars (probably some of the sinus problem) ;\)

I got a fireplace mantle to build too - can I borrow your chop saw?

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#764312 - 09/26/08 09:38 AM Re: am I a goner? [Re: Cornjerker]
bert Offline
Planeteer


Registered: 03/09/00
Posts: 1346
Loc: Parsippany, NJ
Jack,

Best of luck to with the scan and health. Try to take it slow for now. As for mantel, what a coincedence I'll be building one this weekend for my buddy too. I put granite around it a few weeeks back and now waiting on stain color from them. Lots of deco trim on it. Should turn out well.

It's that time for winter again. That sucks!!! Hate the cold and so does my bank account. Trying to find out expenses of converting oil to gas and if it's worth it. Can't seem to get a call back from gas company's rep though. Must be the message I keep leaving. "Lack of Money is the big issue" I guess he knows he won't make a profit. I'm considering doing all the work in house I can on converting. But I'm not familiar with furnace conversion yet. Will see.

Sorry for changing subject here guys. I'll stop now.
_________________________
http://www.myspace.com/inmemoryofdaveluvenguth
http://www.myspace.com/tigerrue

Songs written by my good friend Dave who past on.
vocals - Dave
guitar - Dave and Bert
Bass - Bert
Produced and Recorded - Bert
Drums - Programmed so far

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#764323 - 09/26/08 10:10 AM Re: am I a goner? [Re: bert]
Cornjerker Offline
Planeteer


Registered: 11/16/04
Posts: 5597
Loc: CornvILLe
FAO to FAG, Bert? I did that back in the 70's - it was worth it then, though the bigger savings came from insulating the dickens out of the house - we blew in R30 or so, put R19 batts under the floor in the crawl space - but didn't have money for windows. Then on this house, we blew in R60 and cut our gas bill in half (we had R0 if you can believe it - in a brick house - which really conducts / convects the cold into the house - insulating the basement and ceiling is about all we can do here - as the previous owner did the window upgrade after the tornado. Still, just the attic to R60 cut the bill in half. The blower was free to borrow with the purchase of cellulose insulation ...
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#764790 - 09/26/08 10:37 PM Re: am I a goner? [Re: Cornjerker]
DrJugband Offline
Planeteer


Registered: 03/20/07
Posts: 40
Loc: Australia
Sorry guys, back on the subject of my dead 840...
The tech guys in sydney got me all excited saying they would send me a disc to reboot off. What they sent was a System data disk (v1.05) and the instructions as above (photocopied from the manual) so I can't complain about them trying. Apparently this is not the same as a "Recovery disk" and so it didn't work. I had basically already tried that with info from Cornjerker (thanks again). I think the key is to get a hold of the ROLAND RECOVERY DISC...either that or something else is majorly stuffed with my motherboard.

PS have you tried flushing your sinuses out with Neilmed? (a buffered saline solution in a squeezy bottle)
_________________________
DrJugband

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#764803 - 09/26/08 10:51 PM Re: am I a goner? [Re: DrJugband]
Cornjerker Offline
Planeteer


Registered: 11/16/04
Posts: 5597
Loc: CornvILLe
DrJB - I too have talked with Graham about this and we concluded they must have a special disk - thinking to the times I've flashed to an upgraded BIOS on my PC, there's always 2 components - the BIOS *.BIN file and the flash program itself. It might just be that there's a consumer level flash update, which is what we have downloaded from the Roland site, and then the tech version which comes with its own flash program on disk. Who knows - but it's damn frustrating to b left out in the cold on this by Roland - and I'd say bordering on extortion to require 840 owners to cough up $150 to re-flash a machine that no more than suffered a power outage.

Can you imagine if our PCs and Macs did that? If we had to send the CPU back to IBM or Apple to re-flash the BIOS ROM?

Roland should make that disk available to users - hell they've abandoned the VS line - the 840 is 10 years old - you can't get a VOM anymore, or a VS4S-1 - the user's manuals are online as PDF's downloadable for free. How 'bout giving us the disk for douching a sprung 840?

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#765041 - 09/27/08 11:05 AM Re: am I a goner? [Re: Cornjerker]
dhart Offline
Planeteer


Registered: 12/19/01
Posts: 569
Loc: albany, ny
You're right Jack, it's ridiculous. We don't get any love from Roland despite our loyalty to this ridiculous little box of widgets. What would it cost them to make the files for rescue available? And in denying it to us, do they think it makes us any more likely to buy a future Roland product?

But if Bert is doing his fireplace job now while you put yours off, are you passing the mantel to him? Bert, are you up to the responsibility? (nyuk nyuk nyuk)

sorry. couldn't resist. i'm so ashamed. i should be 'pun'ished.

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#765107 - 09/27/08 02:02 PM Re: am I a goner? [Re: DrJugband]
Bassball Offline
Space Cadet


Registered: 04/17/08
Posts: 23
I know, I should have RTFM, IN ADVANCE instead of following the steps. So today I ABCD+righted my 840, and had no systemdisk, and turned off, and now īBAD FLASH!!ī and īcanīt versionupī.

So is this the same situation? Is my flash memory gone?

DARN!

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#765184 - 09/27/08 04:35 PM Re: am I a goner? [Re: Bassball]
Cornjerker Offline
Planeteer


Registered: 11/16/04
Posts: 5597
Loc: CornvILLe
Why on earth would you do that, Bassball?

That procedure is last-ditch procedure to recover an already blown 840!

Hope you can get your hands on a system disk to fix it. Good luck.

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#765195 - 09/27/08 05:18 PM Re: am I a goner? [Re: Cornjerker]
Bassball Offline
Space Cadet


Registered: 04/17/08
Posts: 23
Well, I did a partially 'bad flash' first... and tried to undo that...
A stupid question maybe, but how can one make a system disk? I have a couple of disks with songs on them... but they don't seem to do the job. And I have e zip drive in my computer. Tried adding the 105 and 240 (is that the right number) files, no effect...

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#765197 - 09/27/08 05:21 PM Re: am I a goner? [Re: Cornjerker]
Bassball Offline
Space Cadet


Registered: 04/17/08
Posts: 23
(My own stupidity never stops amazing me, but that's less important... donīt rub it in )
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#765214 - 09/27/08 06:13 PM Re: am I a goner? [Re: Bassball]
Cornjerker Offline
Planeteer


Registered: 11/16/04
Posts: 5597
Loc: CornvILLe
 Originally Posted By: Bassball
Tried adding the 105 and 240 (is that the right number) files, no effect...


v1.05 and v2.05 are the latest and greatest of the original 840 and the 840EX configurations.

Just to check - the ZIP disk has the file $SYSPRO2.VS1 on it?

You put in the VS-840 while the power is off, then turn it on?

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#765295 - 09/27/08 11:02 PM Re: am I a goner? [Re: dhart]
bert Offline
Planeteer


Registered: 03/09/00
Posts: 1346
Loc: Parsippany, NJ
 Originally Posted By: dhart


sorry. couldn't resist. i'm so ashamed. i should be 'pun'ished.


yep, got to agree with you there Dhart. You should be. ;\) \:\)

As for fixing these 840's nowadays. I think it's easier and sometimes cheaper to pick up one on ebay if you can at 50 to 70 bucks. Someone wanted a scsi adapter awhile back so he/she could transfer 250 disk songs for use after conversion to CF. I had same proplem back when and found another 840 with zip drive for 50. And 2 years back got another gx for 45 because it was a good deal. But I figure once I get back into music again, I'll have standbys once an 840 craps out. I know I'll get a comeback from someone for admitting to having 3 840's and not doing anything with any of them right now. But hey, what can I say, except maybe I'm a collector of electronic junk. Still play my LP's too. \:p

There just so cheap now for what these units can do.
_________________________
http://www.myspace.com/inmemoryofdaveluvenguth
http://www.myspace.com/tigerrue

Songs written by my good friend Dave who past on.
vocals - Dave
guitar - Dave and Bert
Bass - Bert
Produced and Recorded - Bert
Drums - Programmed so far

Top
#765354 - 09/28/08 05:09 AM Re: am I a goner? [Re: Cornjerker]
Bassball Offline
Space Cadet


Registered: 04/17/08
Posts: 23
[quote=Cornjerker
Just to check - the ZIP disk has the file $SYSPRO2.VS1 on it?

You put in the VS-840 while the power is off, then turn it on?[/quote]

Besides som song-maps, onglist.vr8 and system.vs1, $SYSPRO2.VS1 (960 kb) is there too. Power off, power off play/rec/enter, still 'Can't VersionUp' after 'BAD FLASH!!'.
And of course ABCD/Right won't work now, can't get it to 'midi' too.
Does this mean the flash rom (?) is blocked/crashed? Can it be replaced?

(Bert: this IS my second 840, you are absolutely right! One for homerecording, one on location... down here, in Europe, they still do about $100, but that is mainly because of the poor value the dollar has compared to our 'euro')

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#765411 - 09/28/08 09:42 AM Re: am I a goner? [Re: Bassball]
Cornjerker Offline
Planeteer


Registered: 11/16/04
Posts: 5597
Loc: CornvILLe
Based on what users have reported here of that crash over the last 6 years I've been here, only a Roland Service Center can recover your 840. What I've gathered from the few who have reported back after recovering their 840, is that recovery is as simple as booting the 840 up with a special ZIP disk (P/No. 17048942).

I'm going to call Roland US this week about a couple other things (VOM and VS4S-1 availability, their current support policy for the 840) and will ask about that disk - whether they show it in their list of warez offered. Will also get the name/no of a local service rep and talk to them too.

If they have anything to say other than the party line/policy, I'll post up.

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#765448 - 09/28/08 10:38 AM Re: am I a goner? [Re: Bassball]
bert Offline
Planeteer


Registered: 03/09/00
Posts: 1346
Loc: Parsippany, NJ
Baseball,

I wish I could help out with that one. It sseem to me from reading the "compelling version up" format, you will need the midi files labeled disk 1 and 2, containing the info as stated in Jacks post as followed:

VS-840EX System Ver. *.** SMF Disk 1

VS84EX-1.MID
VS84EX-2.MID
VS84EX-3.MID
VS84EX-4.MID

VS-840EX System Ver. *.** SMF Disk 2

VS84EX-5.MID
VS84EX-6.MID
VS84EX-7.MID
VS84EX-8.MID

---------------------------------------------


I don't think we have access to those files unless Jack or someone can say otherwise. If I'm correct you may have to ask Roland to send them to you. Maybe letting a rep know that you realize they exist you may get somewhere with them. Just a thought. And don't forget to mention the part #.

The VS-840 sytem software is supplied in the standard MIDI file (SMF) data format (P/No. 17048943)

I realize there's the zip disk version also (P/No. 17048942). I'm thinking you may need to use the midi version, since Roland didn't seem to realize that when the "BAD FLASH" happens doing a midi upgrade first to 1.05 and then the zip disk upgrade to 2.05 was the way to correct the problem that so many have had in the past. Just another thought. Experiment

Another thought is to make sure you have connected the midi cable correctly. I had made that mistake early on with midi'ing 2 840's together. I put the end labed IN to the 840's labeled IN when it was reversed. Something like that, I forget exactly.
_________________________
http://www.myspace.com/inmemoryofdaveluvenguth
http://www.myspace.com/tigerrue

Songs written by my good friend Dave who past on.
vocals - Dave
guitar - Dave and Bert
Bass - Bert
Produced and Recorded - Bert
Drums - Programmed so far

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#765453 - 09/28/08 10:52 AM Re: am I a goner? [Re: bert]
Cornjerker Offline
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Registered: 11/16/04
Posts: 5597
Loc: CornvILLe
MIDI PLAYER FOR WINDOWS: http://vs840.vjam.net/SMFPLAYR.ZIP

V1.05 MIDI FILES: http://vs840.vjam.net/VS840v105.zip

V2.05 MIDI FILES: http://vs840.vjam.net/VS840EXv205.zip

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#765461 - 09/28/08 11:31 AM Re: am I a goner? [Re: Cornjerker]
bert Offline
Planeteer


Registered: 03/09/00
Posts: 1346
Loc: Parsippany, NJ
Hey Jack, are those upgrades files you just posted the same as to what the compelling version above is referring to? I mean do these files:

VS-840EX System Ver. *.** SMF Disk 1

VS84EX-1.MID
VS84EX-2.MID
VS84EX-3.MID
VS84EX-4.MID

VS-840EX System Ver. *.** SMF Disk 2

VS84EX-5.MID
VS84EX-6.MID
VS84EX-7.MID
VS84EX-8.MID

equal the same as the v1.05 and/or v2.05?
_________________________
http://www.myspace.com/inmemoryofdaveluvenguth
http://www.myspace.com/tigerrue

Songs written by my good friend Dave who past on.
vocals - Dave
guitar - Dave and Bert
Bass - Bert
Produced and Recorded - Bert
Drums - Programmed so far

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#765465 - 09/28/08 11:46 AM Re: am I a goner? [Re: bert]
Cornjerker Offline
Planeteer


Registered: 11/16/04
Posts: 5597
Loc: CornvILLe
 Originally Posted By: bert
Hey Jack, are those upgrades files you just posted the same as to what the compelling version above is referring to? I mean do these files:

VS-840EX System Ver. *.** SMF Disk 1

VS84EX-1.MID
VS84EX-2.MID
VS84EX-3.MID
VS84EX-4.MID

VS-840EX System Ver. *.** SMF Disk 2

VS84EX-5.MID
VS84EX-6.MID
VS84EX-7.MID
VS84EX-8.MID

equal the same as the v1.05 and/or v2.05?




The files in this ZIP archive http://vs840.vjam.net/VS840EXv205.zip are the same as the files listed above.

What I wonder is, from the sounds of the instruction, would it be possible to take 2 VS-840 formatted ZIP 100 disks, park files 1-4 on the 1st disk, and files 5-8 on the 2nd disk, and accomplish the same thing?

I've re-read the instructions above, and I do not think you can load the MIDI file updates via ZIP 100 disk in the 840's ZIP drive. They have to be loaded by SEQUENCER.

The 'compelling' version up procedure requires the system ZIP disk - which presumably has the $SYSPRO.VS1 (or whatever) file on it.

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#765575 - 09/28/08 04:32 PM Re: am I a goner? [Re: Cornjerker]
bert Offline
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Registered: 03/09/00
Posts: 1346
Loc: Parsippany, NJ
Never thought to open your midi files Jack. So used to the syspro zip upgrade. My bad.

Not familiar with how midi does it's thing. But can I assume it will know which file to open first and and what order. Or are there midi codes or something that lets the sequencer automatically load the files in the correct order.

The reason I ask is the order in which I unzip the files using WINZIP is 5,2,3,4,1,6,7,8. I can click on the name header in WINZIP and correct the order but, someone could copy and paste one file at a time to the zip disk and be out of order on the zip, without extracting to a folder 1st(which puts the file in order automatically)

Just fishing for reasons. Been awhile since I got into this stuff. I think I used to/like trying to solve problems more than using the machine. \:D
_________________________
http://www.myspace.com/inmemoryofdaveluvenguth
http://www.myspace.com/tigerrue

Songs written by my good friend Dave who past on.
vocals - Dave
guitar - Dave and Bert
Bass - Bert
Produced and Recorded - Bert
Drums - Programmed so far

Top
#765596 - 09/28/08 05:31 PM Re: am I a goner? [Re: bert]
Cornjerker Offline
Planeteer


Registered: 11/16/04
Posts: 5597
Loc: CornvILLe
It's been 3-4 years since I did an upgrade via MIDI - as I recall, you have to queue up the MIDI file order in the SMFPlayer from Roland. The files are numbered correctly - they just have to be ordered in the player. As I recall, I MIDI'd up from 1.01 to 1.05 - then used a ZIP disk to go to 2.05.

The PC was an old P2-333 with a SB Live! Card - the MIDI cable was one of those things that connected to the game port. Worked fine, but took 20-30 minutes - and had me praying there'd be no power outage.

Hey Bert - an old friend dropped in on VJam.

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#765761 - 09/29/08 01:29 AM Re: am I a goner? [Re: bert]
DrJugband Offline
Planeteer


Registered: 03/20/07
Posts: 40
Loc: Australia
Another blow: the tech guys at Sydney Roland haven't such a disc (RECOVERY DISK) and say the unit may need a new motherboard or drive replaced.
I have emailed the UK tech guy that Graham said had a recovery disk and have yet to hear back. I'm starting to look at brochures for a BR!
_________________________
DrJugband

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#765953 - 09/29/08 01:43 PM Re: am I a goner? [Re: DrJugband]
Cornjerker Offline
Planeteer


Registered: 11/16/04
Posts: 5597
Loc: CornvILLe
Well, I spoke with Roland VS recorder support today - briefly describing the trouble 840 users have with the "Can't Version Up" and "Bad Flash" error. The tech assured me that Roland would support the product, but that the error is NOT a user recoverable error and requires a trip to a service center where "they charge what they charge".

He could not answer my questions about the 'system update zip disk, p/n: 17048942' as mentioned in the procedure above. So he transferred me to parts support.

The parts rep. said the 17048942 is still available, but takes 2-3 weeks to fill the order. It is FREE and I ordered a copy. It'll be here when it gets here, I guess. The only thing the parts rep. could tell me from the summary on her computer screen, is that it's a version 2.05 update disk. It may well be the same damn disk we have been creating with a VS-840 formatted ZIP disk with the $SYSPRO2.VS1 file on it. I'll post the p/n 17048942 disk contents when I get it.



Regarding other items:

The VS-840 Video Owners Manual is no longer available.

The VS4S-1 SCSI kit is no longer available.

Roland did however provide the name and phone number of 3 Roland service centers near me - 2 in Chicago and one in Davenport, Iowa (which is closer). I will contact them and ask about recovering a blown VS-840 - and report my findings.

That you might know what I'm thinking - if after talking to the Roland Service Center reps I determine there's no user recovery for a 'Can't Version Up' or 'Bad Flash' error, forcing users to use a factory service center at $150 bench fee to recover from what amounts to a power failure induced error, I'm strongly considering filing a complaint with the Better Business Bureau (BBB.org) against Roland US.

By making the user manual freely downloadable in PDF form, by discontinuing the VS line, the 840 VOM and VS4S-1, Roland has sent all the signals of abandoning the 840 owners - WITH a major design flaw unresolved - that being a power failure rendering a VS-840 unusable. Perhaps the BBB might help force the issue of customer support for this specific failure and prevail upon Roland to fix it for FREE or a much lower cost when it happens.

Per my friend Graham, in the UK, who spent about $150 (US equiv.) to fix his 840, the fix took all of 5-10 minutes and all the Tech did was run a service-level ZIP disk through the drive to re-burn the OS/flash rom.

If the fix is no more than a flash bios update disk, that FORCES a flash, such should be available to users, for a nominal cost from Roland.

It depends on that disk Roland is sending and what I learn from the 3 tech supt centers they referred me to.

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#766098 - 09/29/08 06:00 PM Re: am I a goner? [Re: Cornjerker]
DrJugband Offline
Planeteer


Registered: 03/20/07
Posts: 40
Loc: Australia
Phil Delahaye [phil@delatronics.co.uk] is the techy that fixed Graham's 840. He wrote back saying I needed a recovery disc and that Roland Australia should be able to supply it. At this stage Roland Australia said they didn't know about a recovery disk (!?) I've written back to them with a copy of Phil's email. Good luck with your enquiries; I'll keep posted.
_________________________
DrJugband

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#766283 - 09/30/08 01:12 AM Re: am I a goner? [Re: DrJugband]
DrJugband Offline
Planeteer


Registered: 03/20/07
Posts: 40
Loc: Australia
My Sydney Roland bloke is contacting Roland Japan re the Recovery disk.
_________________________
DrJugband

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#767681 - 10/02/08 10:18 AM Re: am I a goner? [Re: Cornjerker]
Bassball Offline
Space Cadet


Registered: 04/17/08
Posts: 23
 Originally Posted By: Cornjerker
The only thing the parts rep. could tell me from the summary on her computer screen, is that it's a version 2.05 update disk. It may well be the same damn disk we have been creating with a VS-840 formatted ZIP disk with the $SYSPRO2.VS1 file on it. I'll post the p/n 17048942 disk contents when I get it.
(...)

If the fix is no more than a flash bios update disk, that FORCES a flash, such should be available to users, for a nominal cost from Roland.



You'r quite right... I've contacted a RSS here in the Netherlands and hope to hear from them. Spending $150 on a machine I paid a lot less for would be even more stupid then thinking ABCD-right is an easy reset...



@Bert, loading midi files by zip is not really an option. And as I found out on my other VS840, upgrading is 'medium sensitive'. One needs a zip drive, the other only worked by midi...

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#768013 - 10/02/08 08:17 PM Re: am I a goner? [Re: Bassball]
bert Offline
Planeteer


Registered: 03/09/00
Posts: 1346
Loc: Parsippany, NJ
[quote=Bassball
@Bert, loading midi files by zip is not really an option. And as I found out on my other VS840, upgrading is 'medium sensitive'. One needs a zip drive, the other only worked by midi...

[/quote]

Actually what I meant waz to load those files in the correct order in the roland supplied SMF sequencer using pc to 840 with midi cables. But I believe Jack said you aren't able to get your unit to recognize a midi setup. Not sure if that's what he meant for sure. But I would give it a go just in case. Personally I haven't had to do a midi upgrade. So I'm not real sure how it works. I believe you just hook up the cables correctly to both pc and 840 open the SMF player and load files by selecting path button and pointing to your midi 840 update files and hitting send.

Has anyone tried this yet? Just currious, as sometimes I don't read these post correctly.
_________________________
http://www.myspace.com/inmemoryofdaveluvenguth
http://www.myspace.com/tigerrue

Songs written by my good friend Dave who past on.
vocals - Dave
guitar - Dave and Bert
Bass - Bert
Produced and Recorded - Bert
Drums - Programmed so far

Top
#768025 - 10/02/08 08:47 PM Re: am I a goner? [Re: bert]
Cornjerker Offline
Planeteer


Registered: 11/16/04
Posts: 5597
Loc: CornvILLe
Hey Bert - I've had a "BAD FLASH" once, when I tried to update from 1.01 or 1.02 to 2.05 via ZIP disk ... so I wound up loading 1.05 via MIDI and then upped to 2.05 with a ZIP disk. I was lucky my machine would still receive MIDI and get me to the MIDI RECEIVE Y/N page - what I've read here over the years suggest most users aren't so fortunate ...
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#768813 - 10/04/08 06:01 AM Re: am I a goner? [Re: bert]
Bassball Offline
Space Cadet


Registered: 04/17/08
Posts: 23
 Originally Posted By: bert
Actually what I meant waz to load those files in the correct order in the roland supplied SMF sequencer using pc to 840 with midi cables.
(...)

Has anyone tried this yet? Just currious, as sometimes I don't read these post correctly.


It's just that English is not everybodies native language - it sure isn't mine... But with my other 840 I upgraded by midi, had to, because upgrading to 1.05 was possible by zipdrive but updating to 204 that way crashed the machine. Fortunately that machine still could be set to 'midi receiving'. This one doesn't.

Anyway, has anybody ever opened the machine and found out if the flash rom can be easily replaced? So it would be possible to replace it with one from another machine? Or is it possible to somehow 'blanc' the existing one another way tgan ABCD-right?

Grtz,
Bassball

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#768849 - 10/04/08 08:22 AM Re: am I a goner? [Re: Bassball]
Cornjerker Offline
Planeteer


Registered: 11/16/04
Posts: 5597
Loc: CornvILLe
Several of us have been inside the machine to do the IDE / CF drive update - all components are surface mount / soldered - nothing socketed that can be replaced as far as I've seen.
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#769054 - 10/04/08 04:31 PM Re: am I a goner? [Re: Cornjerker]
Cornjerker Offline
Planeteer


Registered: 11/16/04
Posts: 5597
Loc: CornvILLe
 Originally Posted By: Cornjerker
The parts rep. said the 17048942 is still available, but takes 2-3 weeks to fill the order. It is FREE and I ordered a copy. It'll be here when it gets here, I guess. The only thing the parts rep. could tell me from the summary on her computer screen, is that it's a version 2.05 update disk. It may well be the same damn disk we have been creating with a VS-840 formatted ZIP disk with the $SYSPRO2.VS1 file on it. I'll post the p/n 17048942 disk contents when I get it.



BIG LETDOWN.

The disk Roland sent me is a FLOPPY DISK. According to the packing sheet, it contains the Standard Midi Files for update 2.0. The disk itself is marked "Update Disk v.2.05" and "10933"

BUT WAIT! IT GETS BETTER!

I tried the floppy disk in all 3 of my PCs and, IT IS NOT FORMATTED! WinXP prompts to format the disk in each of my 3 computers.

You realize of course, THIS MEANS WAR!

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#769673 - 10/05/08 09:19 PM Re: am I a goner? [Re: Cornjerker]
DrJugband Offline
Planeteer


Registered: 03/20/07
Posts: 40
Loc: Australia
Go Cornjerker, I'm still not having much luck down under! I'm waiting to see what Sydney Roland can come up with before I hassle Phil Delahaye (UK) any further . He has the only known Roland Recovery Disk for VS840 on the planet!..though he says he doesn't have the means to copy it.
_________________________
DrJugband

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#769859 - 10/06/08 09:55 AM Re: am I a goner? [Re: DrJugband]
Cornjerker Offline
Planeteer


Registered: 11/16/04
Posts: 5597
Loc: CornvILLe
FYI - this morning I created an account at Roland US (the backstage pass area) and filed a trouble ticket with Roland support. The email is limited to 500 characters through their site, so I filed the following request with Roland this morning:

 Quote:
I own a VS-840 and actively support VS-840 users at VSPlanet.com. Regularly, VS-840 owners request support for units that have failed with a BAD FLASH or DON'T MATCH CPU error, caused by 1) improper shutdown, 2) failed flash update, or 3) power failure. A few users have reported that the recovery is as simple as re-setting / re-flashing the failed 840 with a service level ZIP 100 disk. Can this disk be made available to the user community for a nominal fee? Thanks, Jack Helser


If Roland does not respond favorably to my request, I will write the corporate office next, request their assistance for the community, and advise them of my intent to file a complaint with the BBB.

My thinking is that it's ridiculous to have no recovery option for what amounts to an error induced by power failure or untimely disk ejection. Also, Roland should be reminded that THEY are the cause of some of these failures, since they did not warn VS-840EX users of the incompatibility between a VS-840EX formatted ZIP 250 disk and the Windows OS. Users who made their own ZIP 250 flash disk, with the EX 2.0x update file formerly provided through the Roland web site, were rewarded with a BAD FLASH. Roland is culpable in these failures. $150 to reset a bad flash is nothing short of price-gouging.


Edited by Cornjerker (10/06/08 10:02 AM)

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#769871 - 10/06/08 10:32 AM Re: am I a goner? [Re: Cornjerker]
Cornjerker Offline
Planeteer


Registered: 11/16/04
Posts: 5597
Loc: CornvILLe
Roland answered and closed the support request with:

 Quote:
"At this point a 'Can't Version Up' or 'Don't Match CPU' is still a service call."


I opened a new support request to ask:

 Quote:
VS-840 users with the bad flash failure, have watched authorized Roland service technicians fix their failed 840's with a ZIP 100 disk and nothing more, then charge them $150 for 5 minutes work. Whom should the community ask within Roland to make the disk available for us? Thanks, Jack Helser

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#769877 - 10/06/08 10:51 AM Re: am I a goner? [Re: Cornjerker]
Cornjerker Offline
Planeteer


Registered: 11/16/04
Posts: 5597
Loc: CornvILLe
BTW, for the curious, here is the BBB (Better Business Bureau) report on Roland US.

http://www.la.bbb.org/BusinessReport.aspx?CompanyID=55956

Here's the printable version.

http://www.la.bbb.org/PrintReport.aspx?CompanyID=55956

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#770176 - 10/06/08 08:07 PM Re: am I a goner? [Re: Cornjerker]
dhart Offline
Planeteer


Registered: 12/19/01
Posts: 569
Loc: albany, ny
From the BBB: "Our complaint history for this company shows the company gave proper consideration to some complaints presented by the Bureau. Although in some cases the company failed to respond to complaints."

Gives me a nice warm feeling to know they love us. At least we gots each other...

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#770203 - 10/06/08 08:51 PM Re: am I a goner? [Re: dhart]
Cornjerker Offline
Planeteer


Registered: 11/16/04
Posts: 5597
Loc: CornvILLe
No response to the 2nd help request yet. Maybe they are asking up their management chain - at least I hope so. In the mean time, I've already penned a letter to the president/CEO of Roland US to ask for a change in policy to release that disk to us, just in case. Hopefully that won't be necessary - however I'm prepared to take the next couple of steps.

1) Initiate help ticket - if no response, then
2) Write the Roland US president/ceo to ask the disk be made available - if denied, then
3) File a complaint with the BBB - AND ...
4) Encourage every other user who experiences the Flash ROM errors to do the same.

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#770235 - 10/06/08 10:04 PM Re: am I a goner? [Re: Cornjerker]
bert Offline
Planeteer


Registered: 03/09/00
Posts: 1346
Loc: Parsippany, NJ
So Jack, you think these guys check this site out for comments? I think the planet has some influence with Roland. I sure would like to think so. They have made some mistakes with our unit in the past. Since it's discontinued it would only make sense for them to make a good effort to keep 840 users think of Roland as a company who would want us to come back to them for future investments. Especially in these times. It's only common sense and good business on thier/any bodies part. I personally I would not want to get a Roland or any other product from someone after they neglected a very viable request. I mean with a company like behringer and some others who sell thier products for much less, I would hope companys like Roland would appreciate the fact that though thier products are excellent, our choices for buying from them are based on the fact that they will last us a long time. Otherwise we may as well just buy the cheaper product. In this day and age with electronics, most gadgets can be duplicated. But service and dependency is an individual situation which for many of us determine spending more.

I hope you get through to them and they understand what we need for future sake. Without a fix for our 840's some of us will have lost our creations due to the lack of engineering or propriotary software language Roland uses. It is only because of people like you and some others like the Reaper inventer/s that we have the option to keep our recording for future use.

ROLAND IF YOU ARE WATCHING, YOU HOPEFULLY WILL REALIZE THAT KEEPING THIS UNIT WORKING FOR THE MANY WHO HAVE BOUGHT THIS REGARDLESS IF THROUGH EBAY OR YOUR OWN COMPANY NEED YOU TO KEEP THESE UNITS WORKING FOR A MUCH LONGER TIME THAN ENGINEERED. WE HAVE FEW OPTIONS WHEN DESIGN PROBLEMS OCCUR. SO PLEASE DON'T LEAVE US IN THE DUST. WE OBVIOUSLY LOVE YOUR PRODUCTS. BUT THE CUSTOMER SERVICE HAD BEEN QUESTIONABLE AT BEST. MANY OF US HAVE EXPERIENCED/READ MANY EXPAMPLES OF THIS. HOPEFULLY YOU WILL MAKE US ROLAND FREINDLY.
_________________________
http://www.myspace.com/inmemoryofdaveluvenguth
http://www.myspace.com/tigerrue

Songs written by my good friend Dave who past on.
vocals - Dave
guitar - Dave and Bert
Bass - Bert
Produced and Recorded - Bert
Drums - Programmed so far

Top
#770585 - 10/07/08 04:12 PM Re: am I a goner? [Re: bert]
dhart Offline
Planeteer


Registered: 12/19/01
Posts: 569
Loc: albany, ny
Exactly, Bert. If the 840 won't work, we have to replace it. How Roland treats us has a big impact on whether we buy Roland again or not.
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#770816 - 10/07/08 11:45 PM Re: am I a goner? [Re: dhart]
DrJugband Offline
Planeteer


Registered: 03/20/07
Posts: 40
Loc: Australia
Just how many VS840's are out there with the 'don't match cpu' mark of death? Has Bassball recovered? Mine's still sitting limp on my desk waiting for delivery of the Holy Grail. I'm hanging on with baited breath.
_________________________
DrJugband

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#770951 - 10/08/08 11:14 AM Re: am I a goner? [Re: DrJugband]
Cornjerker Offline
Planeteer


Registered: 11/16/04
Posts: 5597
Loc: CornvILLe
We see 1-2 per month, Doc. Just use the SEARCH function and enter "Don't Match CPU" or "Can't Version Up" or "Bad Flash" - be sure to limit your search to the VS-840 forum - and you'll see countless reports of it over the years.

Still no answer from Roland Service concerning my 2nd help request. Simple question - 'who do we need to ask' about a change in policy to release that disk to us?

Bert - I don't think any one from Roland reads this forum. They've built their service / support around the typical model - whereby users register their purchase with them and come to them for questions / support - and in this case, referral to a service center for a $150 lube job.

Personally, I find something inherently dishonest about all of this. The "mystery" that has shrouded the repair of a VS-840 with a flash-ROM based failure. I think all of us have had visions of them opening the units, doing a hardware replacement or some reset with bench-test equipment - at least that would seemingly warrant the typical $150 repair job. But to be as simple as cycle a ZIP disk through the drive and fix it in under 5 minutes? That's a total hose job on their part.

And where they are directly responsible for some of the failtures - by design - a machine that is NOT robust enough to survive a power failure - or - by failure to WARN the user community that their VS-840EX and GX formatted ZIP 250 disks are NOT COMPATIBLE with Windows - when their instructions with the ZIP flash upgrade file (previously on the Roland Web Site), could NOT be properly written to a ZIP 250 disk by Windows, and would therefore TRASH every machine someone tried to update with a self-made disk ... again by design - that the load the OS by MIDI isn't protected from a flash-ROM based error ...

If the design of a PC or Mac were as flakey / finnicky as the VS-840 flash-ROM problem, we'd have seen some class action against IBM/Apple to eliminate the design flaws and make them more robust / reliable.

Also, these errors appear to be UNIQUE to the VS-840 line. I searched ALL the other VS forums and BR forums here for the terms "bad flash", "can't version up" and "don't match cpu" and there is not a single occurrence in any of the other forums of those failures, going back 3 years. So, perhaps Roland learned something about designing a more robust flash ROM code / OS for the other machines, while we VS-840 users continue to get fucked over by Roland Support for what amounts to be a piss poor OS design?

These are the types of facts I want to bring to the BBB on behalf of the VS-840 user community IF Roland does NOT make a repair disk available to us for a reasonable cost. Or, IMO, Roland ought to initiate policy with their repair centers that flash-ROM based failures should cost no more than $20 to fix.

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#771203 - 10/08/08 07:47 PM Re: am I a goner? [Re: Cornjerker]
dhart Offline
Planeteer


Registered: 12/19/01
Posts: 569
Loc: albany, ny
You said it.

Now where do I get my "Cornjerker for President" sign for my lawn? \:\)

dave

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#771215 - 10/08/08 08:31 PM Re: am I a goner? [Re: dhart]
Cornjerker Offline
Planeteer


Registered: 11/16/04
Posts: 5597
Loc: CornvILLe
Wouldn't want the job, but, you are welcome to vote Libertarian/Bob Barr on my behalf. ;\)
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#773098 - 10/13/08 12:32 PM Re: am I a goner? [Re: DrJugband]
Bassball Offline
Space Cadet


Registered: 04/17/08
Posts: 23
 Originally Posted By: DrJugband
Has Bassball recovered? Mine's still sitting limp on my desk waiting for delivery of the Holy Grail. I'm hanging on with baited breath.

The answer to that is 'no'. No answer form the Roland center I e-mailed too. So... I'm still waiting, as Diana Ross sung. Out of options. Will have to contact another service center... And somehow my desire to buy 'Roland' is dropping as fast as stocks these days.

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#773100 - 10/13/08 12:36 PM Re: am I a goner? [Re: Cornjerker]
Bassball Offline
Space Cadet


Registered: 04/17/08
Posts: 23
 Originally Posted By: Cornjerker
Or, IMO, Roland ought to initiate policy with their repair centers that flash-ROM based failures should cost no more than $20 to fix.


Right! BTW youīre a tough sob :-)

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#774549 - 10/16/08 11:30 AM Re: am I a goner? [Re: Bassball]
Cornjerker Offline
Planeteer


Registered: 11/16/04
Posts: 5597
Loc: CornvILLe
Update: Nearly 1 WEEK later, still no response from Roland Support.

 Quote:
Email Support
Support Request #35524

10-10-2008 12:14:47 PM

Current Status:Pending
Product: VS-840, VS-840EX
Subject: Bad Flash Recovery
Question: This is my reply to the previous request for support. "At this point a 'Can't Version Up' or 'Don't Match CPU' is still a service call." VS-840 users with the bad flash failure, have watched authorized Roland service technicians fix their failed 840's with a ZIP 100 disk and nothing more, then charge them $150 for 5 minutes work. Whom should the community ask within Roland to make the disk available for us? Thanks, Jack Helser
Response: Pending

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#775402 - 10/17/08 12:57 PM Re: am I a goner? [Re: Cornjerker]
Cornjerker Offline
Planeteer


Registered: 11/16/04
Posts: 5597
Loc: CornvILLe
Roland answered my Support request Fri, Oct 17, 2008 at 12:14 PM. Their reply follows:

 Quote:
Jack,

Unfortunately, it is a protected disk that is no longer available even for local service centers that do not already have a copy of it. At this point, most VS-840s that "Cannot Version UP" would have to be sent to our main service center in Los Angeles.


It appears that the only option left, would be for the President of Roland to initiate a policy change to make the disk available to the user community, or, put an end to the price gouging and fix the VS-840s for a nominal fee.

Otherwise, the 840 has reached the point where the cost to repair them exceeds the marketplace value of a used 840.

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#775592 - 10/17/08 07:26 PM Re: am I a goner? [Re: Cornjerker]
dhart Offline
Planeteer


Registered: 12/19/01
Posts: 569
Loc: albany, ny
Since most service centers see so few 840's for repair, maybe one of us can buy one from a service center. The things are probably just taking up space, and if you can get $25 for it, that would seem a reasonable thing. Is there anything that would prevent a service center from being allowed to sell it to one of us? Maybe we should each contact a couple of service centers off Roland's list and see if anyone would be willing, then perhaps the community could all send a few bucks or a 6 pack of beer to the hero who comes up with it to defray costs.
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#775634 - 10/17/08 08:56 PM Re: am I a goner? [Re: dhart]
Cornjerker Offline
Planeteer


Registered: 11/16/04
Posts: 5597
Loc: CornvILLe
Hey Dave,

One of the guys who paid for the fix found a service guy willing to copy the disk but he didn't have the means to copy ... assuming it's standard VS-840 format, someone would need an 840 with zip and an external SCSI ... I've got one - would be keen if we could get that service guy together with a user who has the equipment to copy ...

Even so, I'd rather go about it through channels - I'm hopeful the Pres. of Roland will be sympathetic to our cause. I'd like to give him a chance.

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#776590 - 10/19/08 10:00 PM Re: am I a goner? [Re: Cornjerker]
DrJugband Offline
Planeteer


Registered: 03/20/07
Posts: 40
Loc: Australia
I'd be happy to chip in.
_________________________
DrJugband

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#779912 - 10/26/08 01:41 PM Re: am I a goner? [Re: DrJugband]
Bassball Offline
Space Cadet


Registered: 04/17/08
Posts: 23
Dear Mr. President,
Come take a walk with me.
Let's pretend we're just two people and
You're not better than me.
I'd like to ask you some questions if we can speak honestly

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#780478 - 10/27/08 07:40 PM Re: am I a goner? [Re: Cornjerker]
dhart Offline
Planeteer


Registered: 12/19/01
Posts: 569
Loc: albany, ny
 Originally Posted By: Cornjerker
Even so, I'd rather go about it through channels


Yeah, I agree with you. And I think you have done a very admirable job of laying out the user community's position. But if they continue to stonewall us, then it's worth thinking about options other than shopping for a Tascam.

Dave

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#782162 - 10/30/08 05:26 PM Re: am I a goner? [Re: dhart]
DrJugband Offline
Planeteer


Registered: 03/20/07
Posts: 40
Loc: Australia
Is there any further moves towards a solution here?
Incidentally, I've decided to purchase a BR 1200CD as I've gone into serious withdrawal; but would still like to resurrect my grey door stop. It breaks my heart to see it lying there lifeless. I'll be keeping my eye on the thread and look forward to a day where we can share that elusive recovery disc. I'm sure I'll be able to look back on all this and have a good laugh. (sob,sob).
_________________________
DrJugband

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#782163 - 10/30/08 05:27 PM Re: am I a goner? [Re: DrJugband]
DrJugband Offline
Planeteer


Registered: 03/20/07
Posts: 40
Loc: Australia
PS see you on the BR 1200CD forum.
_________________________
DrJugband

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#782170 - 10/30/08 05:55 PM Re: am I a goner? [Re: DrJugband]
Cornjerker Offline
Planeteer


Registered: 11/16/04
Posts: 5597
Loc: CornvILLe
Dr. J ... I don't know if you saw the other thread, but I have written the president of Roland US to ask for his help and a change to company policy concerning this error, which is unique to the VS-840 in the whole VS lineup ... they have a ZIP disk used by service that will restore the unit (IF it's just a blown flash) - there is NO reason it should cost $150 to re-flash a ROM and require shipment to/from Roland US in Los Angeles - just post the ZIP disk file(s) or ZIP disk image and let us make our own disk - or hell - sell it to us for a nominal fee ...

Note that I've called Roland a few times and have gotten a rather nervous sounding service guy on the phone who ASSURES me that Roland is still supporting the VS-840 - yet - accessories are no longer available - new service centers are NOT supplied with the recovery disks to fix the 840 - they have to be sent to L.A., they don't provide the VS4S-1 SCSI card anymore, they don't provide the VS-840 Video Owners Manual (VHS tape / 90 minutes) ... so, their WORDS do not line up with their ACTIONS ...

I will press the issue with the Prez for awhile, but IF he doesn't reply (it's been 2 weeks), if the disk is not made available to us (free or cheap), then I will file a complaint with the US Better Business Bureau (BBB) on behalf of the community to force an arbitrated reply from them - elsewise, risk their business rating with the BBB. They currently have a "C" grade for a few complaints that they did not respond to.

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#782295 - 10/30/08 10:34 PM Re: am I a goner? [Re: Cornjerker]
DrJugband Offline
Planeteer


Registered: 03/20/07
Posts: 40
Loc: Australia
I have been watching your posts and will continue to as I'm hoping it will bear fruit. I don't know if any members are near Phil Delahey's shop in the UK as he seemed ok about copying the disk if he had the means. It would need a zip drive to lift the file off the disk and maybe that could be posted. We could then make our own versions of a recovery disc on a VS formated disc. So easy yet so....I know you want to go through the right channels. I should get delivery of my new unit (yes I did buy Roland again!) this week...
Thanks for all the help so far!
_________________________
DrJugband

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#782736 - 10/31/08 06:45 PM Re: am I a goner? [Re: DrJugband]
dhart Offline
Planeteer


Registered: 12/19/01
Posts: 569
Loc: albany, ny
 Originally Posted By: DrJugband
I should get delivery of my new unit (yes I did buy Roland again!) this week...


C'mon Mr President of Roland! We're loyal, we want to do the right thing, we're loyal, we're good looking (at least online) and we're loyal. You know in your heart you ought to help us out on this.

Pretty please?

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#782737 - 10/31/08 06:45 PM Re: am I a goner? [Re: dhart]
dhart Offline
Planeteer


Registered: 12/19/01
Posts: 569
Loc: albany, ny
with sugar on top?
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#782861 - 10/31/08 09:57 PM Re: am I a goner? [Re: dhart]
Cornjerker Offline
Planeteer


Registered: 11/16/04
Posts: 5597
Loc: CornvILLe
If he doesn't comply, I'll kidnap him and make him listen to music recorded on a Fostex 4 track, with a bad case of wow and flutter, 24x7 until he caves ...
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#785791 - 11/06/08 01:36 PM Re: am I a goner? [Re: Cornjerker]
Bassball Offline
Space Cadet


Registered: 04/17/08
Posts: 23
Fostex - I had one long time ago... HISSSSSSSSSSSSSS

ANyway, I'm probably nearest to this British willing flashzip owner, but still it's a Northsea to cross. But I'd be very willing to try to copy it if he snakemailed it to me... promise to be very careful... and return it swiftly!

BTW never heard from my Dutch Roland center... darn

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#786170 - 11/07/08 07:24 AM Re: am I a goner? [Re: Bassball]
Bassball Offline
Space Cadet


Registered: 04/17/08
Posts: 23
Well, I found a RSS here that answered my mail; as far as i understand they do have a recovery disc.
I will ask them if they can send it... that way I won't have to send my VS 840 to them.

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#786213 - 11/07/08 09:47 AM Re: am I a goner? [Re: Bassball]
Cornjerker Offline
Planeteer


Registered: 11/16/04
Posts: 5597
Loc: CornvILLe
Good luck!
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#786655 - 11/07/08 11:41 PM Re: am I a goner? [Re: Cornjerker]
DrJugband Offline
Planeteer


Registered: 03/20/07
Posts: 40
Loc: Australia
Hope you can share the love, Baseball
_________________________
DrJugband

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#815793 - 01/22/09 05:00 AM Re: am I a goner? [Re: DrJugband]
DrJugband Offline
Planeteer


Registered: 03/20/07
Posts: 40
Loc: Australia
My grey doorstop is gathering dust. Still keen on that rescue from Mr Houlihan.
_________________________
DrJugband

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#829001 - 02/20/09 06:27 AM Re: am I a goner? [Re: DrJugband]
Bassball Offline
Space Cadet


Registered: 04/17/08
Posts: 23
HEY!
Wake up and smell the roses, it's finally here (from Norway)! Just opened the box, unwrapped the disk and found the text

VS-840/VS-840S
SYSTEM ZIP DISK
(for Service)
Version 1.02
P/N 17048691

Now I hope this is not the disk we already knew...
Before trying anything, I'll try to back it up.

Well, I made a kind of backup to a previously used zip, put it in the bad flash-machine, nothing.
So I put in the original disk into the machine.
Guess what!
IT WORKED!!!
I've got a &*^%&^% working Service disk!!!

I think Cornjerker is the person to center all further activities, aren't you?



Edited by Bassball (02/20/09 07:07 AM)

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#829064 - 02/20/09 09:26 AM Re: am I a goner? [Re: Bassball]
Cornjerker Offline
Planeteer


Registered: 11/16/04
Posts: 5597
Loc: CornvILLe
 Originally Posted By: Bassball
I've got a &*^%&^% working Service disk!!!

I think Cornjerker is the person to center all further activities, aren't you?


HOT DAMN! You da man, Bass! ;\)

I'm not really centered, but I do (probably) have the ability to copy that disk - with a SCSI equipped VS-840EX and several external SCSI ZIP drives and ZIP drive in the PC. If you wanted to send the disk to me, I'll make and send copies of it back out and see if it can be archived and put on my site ( http://vs840.vjam.net ) ... I'm hopeful still that Roland will come clean with the complaint I've filed with the California Better Business Board (BBB) - and the responsibility to furnish that disk is theirs - but - if they are going to gouge us and abandon us, then the heck with 'em.

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#829067 - 02/20/09 09:40 AM Re: am I a goner? [Re: Cornjerker]
Bassball Offline
Space Cadet


Registered: 04/17/08
Posts: 23
Hey Corn,

I'd like to hold on to the disk a bit, but I can send you the files on it (I have a zip drive dangling from my computer); now my VS works again I am also able again to VS-format a zip disk, and I put the files on that, so that SHOULD work; but the ultimate test would be to bad flash my 840 again... I may be stupid, but... are you in a position to do such a test?

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#829135 - 02/20/09 11:53 AM Re: am I a goner? [Re: Bassball]
Cornjerker Offline
Planeteer


Registered: 11/16/04
Posts: 5597
Loc: CornvILLe
On whether I can bad-flash an 840 - while I have the 'technical expertise' to do that, I wouldn't want to.

I just wrote you an email and / PM - the file list you sent on that disk, shows it to be a standard VS-840 initialized disk, with a v1.02 $SYSPRO2.VS1 system flash/update file in the root directory.

As in the email/PM, now that you have used it, check the root directory for the presence of a NEW file that serves as a 'marker' that the disk has been used to flash your machine.

What neither of us can tell, is whether there is a unique boot-track on that disk, or, whether that's a special version of the $SYSPRO2.VS1 file? Or, is there something that's simply unique about the v1.02 $SYSPRO2.VS1 file from the later versions that allows for doing a flash update on a corrupt ROM BIOS?

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#829379 - 02/20/09 08:55 PM Re: am I a goner? [Re: Cornjerker]
dhart Offline
Planeteer


Registered: 12/19/01
Posts: 569
Loc: albany, ny
That's great, Bassball.

But now what are you going to do for a door stop, I hear it can get chilly in Norway in the winter?

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#829442 - 02/20/09 11:16 PM Re: am I a goner? [Re: bert]
Cornjerker Offline
Planeteer


Registered: 11/16/04
Posts: 5597
Loc: CornvILLe
Roland supplies an SMF player that works with windows, and you can queue up the MIDI files in order from your PC.
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#830481 - 02/23/09 09:17 PM Re: am I a goner? [Re: Cornjerker]
Cornjerker Offline
Planeteer


Registered: 11/16/04
Posts: 5597
Loc: CornvILLe
Bassball, et al,

Jim Y was kind enough to send me the original v1.02 $SYSPRO2.VS1 file that Roland US formerly had on their web site. Bassball also sent me an archive of all the files on the 'Service' disk - which by all appearances, is nothing more than a VS-840 initialized ZIP 100 disk with a v1.02 $SYSPRO2.VS1 file in the root directory.

While I don't have the software to compare the 2 $SYSPRO2.VS1 files to see whether they are identical, I did load them both up in a HEX editor and compared them at various points on the file and near as I can tell, they are identical.

So, it would seem that the "SERVICE" disk Bassball used to restore his 'BAD FLASH' VS-840, is simply a v1.02 ROM update disk.

Bass - I don't know if you just got lucky, or if it is as you and Bert have suggested - that perhaps the "can't version up" message simply means that it can't version up beyond the original software and the machine needs to reinstall / reset to v1.02.

Bass, you said you wrote DrJugBand, didn't you? If he can recover with a v1.02 disk, might be you've found the solution.

Jack

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#832830 - 03/01/09 02:40 AM Re: am I a goner? [Re: Cornjerker]
DrJugband Offline
Planeteer


Registered: 03/20/07
Posts: 40
Loc: Australia
Sorry to be a downer, but my 'don't match CPU' vs840 is not falling for the baseball 1.02 disk . It hardly has a look at the disk before showing the error message. Maybe my CPU is scewed??
_________________________
DrJugband

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#839750 - 03/16/09 08:06 PM Re: am I a goner? [Re: DrJugband]
bathhunger Offline
Space Cadet


Registered: 03/16/09
Posts: 6
Loc: AL, USA
Hey all,

I'm a little late coming into this but I have the same problem. It sounds like in bass's experiment upon initially receiving the disk, a copy didn't work but then the original did.

Jug...when you say yours didn't fall for the bass 1.02 disk, was that the original or a copy? Bass had said he wanted to hold onto it for a bit (which is totally understandable), so I just want to make sure I know where we are right now before I throw in any further thoughts.

Hoping we can all get through this somehow, someday...
_________________________
"Redemption! Redemption for you manatees!" - misheard lyrics to Dream Theater's In The Presence of Enemies Pt.1

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#839802 - 03/16/09 10:11 PM Re: am I a goner? [Re: bathhunger]
Cornjerker Offline
Planeteer


Registered: 11/16/04
Posts: 5597
Loc: CornvILLe
I can't imagine it makes a difference whether original or copy ... in Roland's reply to my BBB complaint (see http://www.vsplanet.com/ubbthreads/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=831545#Post831545 ) they say the disk that will fix it is NOT AVAILABLE TO THE PUBLIC and has COPY PROTECTION to prevent it's distribution via the web or user to user copying.

I'm 99.99% sure Bass just has a plain old v1.02 system disk, which anyone can make, by putting the v1.02 $SYSPRO2.VS1 file on a VS-840 ZIP disk (must have been formatted previously by a VS-840).

Sometimes, those plain old update disks will recover the error, and sometimes not - it must depend on where and how severely the ROM is corrupted.

Note that, when a ROM is corrupted, SOMETIMES it will respond to the button push to initiate MIDI SYSEX RECEIVE and sometimes not ... I was one of the lucky ones to recover from a BAD FLASH via MIDI - as my machine still had enough ROM code left to effect the SYSEX update ... others try the MIDI route, and it doesn't work because, I suppose, the ROM is TOO corrupted.

IF you are the original owner, with proof of purchase, why not take Roland up on the repair for free offer in their BBB reply?

If you are a 2nd hand owner and you can't recover by DISK or MIDI, you'll have to pay Roland or a local authorized repair center to fix it.

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#840020 - 03/17/09 11:33 AM Re: am I a goner? [Re: Cornjerker]
bathhunger Offline
Space Cadet


Registered: 03/16/09
Posts: 6
Loc: AL, USA
Sorry, I'm not trying to go in circles. But the reason I think original vs. copy makes a difference is because it looks like in Bassball's case, it did actually make a difference (#829001 - 02/20/09 07:27 AM).

I understand that Roland says the disk is not available, but unless I read Bassball's report incorrectly, we have "something" that worked while a backup of that same "something" did not, on the same broken system.

It is entirely possible that only a low level bit by bit copy would produce a usable backup. This is the same concept as people who have to create perfect images to backup their Playstation games. (edit: putting all the identical files on a formatted disc doesn't guarantee that it is properly organized and recognized by the system)

Anyway, sorry if I'm being slow on the uptake. Have I overlooked where the v1.02 file might be laying around so I can at least try the copy method? I found the 1.05 but not the 1.02.

Alternatively, Bassball, would you be willing to let me ship my broken VS840 to you, and have you try both the backup you made (which failed for you) and the original you got in the mail (which worked for you)?

I'm not the original owner and I have heard some horror stories about Roland's service. I'd like to exhaust every other option before I try that route.

Also I just realized I never introduced myself in my first post and sorry for that. My name is Dave, and I'm a software engineer from Alabama. I've had my VS840 for a few years and got hit with this problem about three months ago.


Edited by bathhunger (03/17/09 11:49 AM)
_________________________
"Redemption! Redemption for you manatees!" - misheard lyrics to Dream Theater's In The Presence of Enemies Pt.1

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#840039 - 03/17/09 12:24 PM Re: am I a goner? [Re: bathhunger]
Cornjerker Offline
Planeteer


Registered: 11/16/04
Posts: 5597
Loc: CornvILLe
Hi Dave,

Nor am I trying to disparage you. Years ago, Jim Y and I used some sector editors to examine the boot block of an 840 formatted ZIP 100 disk and determined there was nothing unique about them. The 840 simply has a routine in ROM that looks for the presence of a system update file when it reads a disk. If found, it prompts "System Update? Y/N" (or the like), if not, it just loads the song on the SONG0000.vs1 folder by default.

Though admittedly, with the potential for blowing up the system, doing ROM updates isn't something we've done repeatedly to learn how it works.

I put the v1.02 system update file on line for you - I didn't have it - but Jim Y sent it a couple weeks ago via email attach. You can find it online here if you want to make your own v1.02 disk and attempt recovery:

http://vs840.vjam.net/840Z102.ZIP

There's a TXT file in it with instructions. Use a VS-840 formatted ZIP 100 disk, put it in your PC's ZIP drive and copy the $SYSPRO2.VS1 file in the ZIP archive to the ZIP disk. Then put it in your VS-840 drive and press the power button.

Good luck.

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#840040 - 03/17/09 12:25 PM Re: am I a goner? [Re: Cornjerker]
Cornjerker Offline
Planeteer


Registered: 11/16/04
Posts: 5597
Loc: CornvILLe
PS - it's been awhile since I was in Alabama. I loved working in Huntsville at the Arsenal for 3-4 months - on transfer from Boeing in Seattle. If I could have relocated there, I would have - but it was just a loan to get through some of the space station technical audits and when the work was done, it was back to Seattle for me.

Jack

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#840064 - 03/17/09 12:55 PM Re: am I a goner? [Re: Cornjerker]
bathhunger Offline
Space Cadet


Registered: 03/16/09
Posts: 6
Loc: AL, USA
Thanks, Jack.

I didn't realize you had checked them out that closely. You're probably right, then...although part of me still can't help but wonder about the difference in Bassball's experience. There may be mysteries in the architecture of this device that we'll never be able to unravel.

Thanks for the v1.02 file, too. I'm going to hope for the best and give it a try. I'll let you all know what happens.

Here in Birmingham, we have just entered that nice time of year where you don't have run the heat or the A/C, just crack a couple of windows. I expect it to last for about another three days!
_________________________
"Redemption! Redemption for you manatees!" - misheard lyrics to Dream Theater's In The Presence of Enemies Pt.1

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#840315 - 03/18/09 07:50 AM Re: am I a goner? [Re: bathhunger]
bathhunger Offline
Space Cadet


Registered: 03/16/09
Posts: 6
Loc: AL, USA
Well I don't think this is going to come as much of a surprise to anyone, but it didn't work.

Thanks again, anyway, for posting the file.
_________________________
"Redemption! Redemption for you manatees!" - misheard lyrics to Dream Theater's In The Presence of Enemies Pt.1

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#840357 - 03/18/09 10:08 AM Re: am I a goner? [Re: bathhunger]
Cornjerker Offline
Planeteer


Registered: 11/16/04
Posts: 5597
Loc: CornvILLe
You could go to the RolandUS site and use their service center locater for a place near you - there's none in Birmingham, but a few within driving distance. See http://www.rolandus.com/support/service_centers/

This BTW, is where I think Roland is plain f'ing criminal. There is a disk that will fix this, but they won't release it to the public. They know the OS in the 840 is WEAK and allows for these errors with a power interruption, disk ejection, or following ROLAND's instructions for a flash update and thereby rendering the 840 inoperative. Still, they charge users to fix what is clearly a design flaw / weakness in the 840.

IMO, they are deserving of the "F" given to them by the Better Business Bureau.

Roland's response is disappointing to me - I was out looking at amps last weekend and I won't even consider the Roland cube amps, because Roland abandoned the 840 community and has cheated owners with failed machines. As an owner/user, that they decided to simply NOT RESPOND to me through the BBB, is contemptuous and irresponsible on their part. I damn sure won't buy anything Roland / Boss / Edirol ever again.

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#840854 - 03/19/09 10:32 AM Re: am I a goner? [Re: Cornjerker]
bathhunger Offline
Space Cadet


Registered: 03/16/09
Posts: 6
Loc: AL, USA
Thanks for the link. I might take it up to Warrior. I'd hate to fix it only to have it happen again though, no matter how careful I might be.

I'm to the point now where all I really care about is getting usable copies of what had been recently recorded. There is some stuff that I just jammed and the recording is the only way to remember what I did. I've pulled the files off the zips and now I just have to convert them and piece them back together. I searched the forum and it looks like Reaper might be something to try?

I've seen the BBB interaction that you've posted around here and I am in complete agreement with you. I've told all my friends how they have behaved, and hopefully word will spread far and fast.
_________________________
"Redemption! Redemption for you manatees!" - misheard lyrics to Dream Theater's In The Presence of Enemies Pt.1

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#840910 - 03/19/09 12:54 PM Re: am I a goner? [Re: bathhunger]
Cornjerker Offline
Planeteer


Registered: 11/16/04
Posts: 5597
Loc: CornvILLe
Bathhunger, have you discovered the BR8 to WAV converter?

http://vs840.vjam.net/BR8_to_WAV_Converter.exe

It runs under Windows, sees VS-840 formatted ZIP 100 disks inserted in your PC's ZIP drive, and converts the ROLAND format files to WAV 2 tracks at a time.

Once saved as WAV, you can load them up in whatever software sequencer you have.

...

About your VS-840, if you POWER UP while pressing MODE, INPUT and ENTER, does the 840 screen display the "Receive Midi-Ex Yes/No" prompt? If so, does it respond with "Now Waiting" if you press "Yes"?

If so, you may be able to recover your 840 via MIDI.

For that, you need the Roland SMF Player ( http://vs840.vjam.net/SMFPLAYR.ZIP ) AND the v1.05 MIDI files ( http://vs840.vjam.net/VS840v105.zip ) AND a MIDI cable to connect your computer MIDI out to the VS-840 MIDI IN. That you can do via USB MIDI or Game Port MIDI on your PC.

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#846207 - 04/01/09 10:04 PM Re: am I a goner? [Re: Cornjerker]
DrJugband Offline
Planeteer


Registered: 03/20/07
Posts: 40
Loc: Australia
Been away; my VS840 is still dead and did not recover with the disc I made with the 1.02v files posted by bassball. When I power up, the error message "don't match cpu" comes up only a split second after the disc drive fires up, as though it doesn't even have a look at what's on it. Do you reckon this is still recoverable via a disk?
_________________________
DrJugband

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#846308 - 04/02/09 09:25 AM Re: am I a goner? [Re: DrJugband]
Cornjerker Offline
Planeteer


Registered: 11/16/04
Posts: 5597
Loc: CornvILLe
What we've learned through the scant information we can PRY out of Roland suggests only a dealer can fix it, with a special disk that will forcibly rewrite the BIOS ROM code.

In the US, Roland has offered to fix for FREE any 840 rendered inoperable with a "Don't Match CPU" error for ORIGINAL OWNERS with PROOF OF PURCHASE. The owner simply needs to call Roland, get an RA number and pay for shipping to the Roland service center in Los Angeles. Roland will pay the return shipping.

No idea what a brother in Australia has to do.

Have you tried writing Roland Australia at support@rolandcorp.com.au ?

There's a Dealer / Service locater at http://www.rolandcorp.com.au/default.aspx?pg=LocateDealer ... enter VS in the "Find Retailers that Sell" field and enter your location in the other 2 fields. Authorized service centers appear at the bottom of the list of results.



Edited by Cornjerker (04/02/09 09:31 AM)
Edit Reason: added service center info

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#847208 - 04/04/09 05:38 PM Re: am I a goner? [Re: Cornjerker]
dhart Offline
Planeteer


Registered: 12/19/01
Posts: 569
Loc: albany, ny
 Originally Posted By: Cornjerker
The owner simply needs to ...


...pray that they still have the proof of purchase from back in 2000 or so.

I don't think that's going to help me much if I get in trouble, so I guess I'll just focus on being careful. Of course, at the rate I've been using it recently a powering off error is a low risk occurrence. \:\(

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#847210 - 04/04/09 05:42 PM Re: am I a goner? [Re: dhart]
Cornjerker Offline
Planeteer


Registered: 11/16/04
Posts: 5597
Loc: CornvILLe
Me too Dave ... between kitchen remodel, making photo/music/videos for my niece and nephew's graduation, playing guitar for Grease at the high school, I haven't had time for my own music since last fall ...
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#847558 - 04/05/09 07:37 PM Re: am I a goner? [Re: Cornjerker]
DrJugband Offline
Planeteer


Registered: 03/20/07
Posts: 40
Loc: Australia
I did converse with Roland Aus (Sydney) and they kindly sent me a disc with v1.05 and said if that didn't work they would have to replace the motherboard. They denied any knowledge of any other recovery disc.
_________________________
DrJugband

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#848434 - 04/08/09 01:46 PM Re: am I a goner? [Re: Cornjerker]
bathhunger Offline
Space Cadet


Registered: 03/16/09
Posts: 6
Loc: AL, USA
I've been away for a while too but figured I'd give you an update on what you suggested. I tried powering up while holding MODE, INPUT, and ENTER and unfortunately got nothing.

Thanks for the link to the converter, I will give it a try whenever I can find a few spare minutes...been absolutely crazy lately!
_________________________
"Redemption! Redemption for you manatees!" - misheard lyrics to Dream Theater's In The Presence of Enemies Pt.1

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#848767 - 04/09/09 11:48 AM Re: am I a goner? [Re: DrJugband]
jim y Offline
Planeteer


Registered: 01/06/01
Posts: 2579
Don't know if it's already been said but...
An update disc won't update twice - neither then will a direct copy of a used disc.
IIRC, the update process places a marker file, the name of which I have forgotten, onto that disc - presumably to prevent another update if the disc is put in again.
It should be possible to remove the extra file on a pc with a zip drive - it will be whatever is additional to the default 840 files and the syspro file.

I wouldn't mind betting that the "protected" repair disc that Roland have is nothing more than "Write Protected" to prevent the marker file appearing so they can easily reuse the same disc.
IIRC, Iomega had a software utility "Zip Tools" that provided software protection for the discs. It can probably still be had as a free download from Iomega.

This is not to say that an 840 cannot be fried beyond help, because if the system bootloader is corrupt it won't get anywhere. That said, most of these sort of CPU's have a standard bootloader hard coded in an onboard ROM memory OR can be loaded by a serial interface connection on the chip.

Jim

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#852123 - 04/19/09 05:18 PM Re: am I a goner? [Re: DrJugband]
VSfredy Offline
Planeteer


Registered: 04/14/09
Posts: 49
Loc: Washington, USA
This is what I would try: I would put a Zip 100 drive in place of the CF. See if you can access and get the message for MIDI version up. If you can, re-install 1.05 with MIDI.

Then build the Zip 100 version up disk. Format on the VS-840 and then move it to PC and delete all the files on it LEAVING it formatted as the VS-840. Copy Cornjerker's $Syspro2 file for 2.05 to the disk. Put the ZIP back in the VS-840 and turn power on... and pray...

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#852487 - 04/20/09 10:45 PM Re: am I a goner? [Re: VSfredy]
Cornjerker Offline
Planeteer


Registered: 11/16/04
Posts: 5597
Loc: CornvILLe
He's dead, Jim.
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#852489 - 04/20/09 10:55 PM Re: am I a goner? [Re: bathhunger]
VSfredy Offline
Planeteer


Registered: 04/14/09
Posts: 49
Loc: Washington, USA
A couple things to check. One dead VS-840 I had the zip IDE cable part way off. It would not do a thing without the cable in place. It was cocked slightly and apparently the marginal connection hung the OS during the bootup.
Another thing: CHECK your power supply voltage. Many a time coincidence failure pf a power supply has led me on a merry chase... So do check it... Is there anything displayed at all in the display?

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#852496 - 04/20/09 11:41 PM Re: am I a goner? [Re: Cornjerker]
DrJugband Offline
Planeteer


Registered: 03/20/07
Posts: 40
Loc: Australia
 Originally Posted By: Cornjerker

are you referring to me?? am i a goner?
_________________________
DrJugband

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#852557 - 04/21/09 08:44 AM Re: am I a goner? [Re: DrJugband]
Cornjerker Offline
Planeteer


Registered: 11/16/04
Posts: 5597
Loc: CornvILLe
Levity my friend, levity ... ;\)
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#852582 - 04/21/09 10:12 AM Re: am I a goner? [Re: Cornjerker]
jim y Offline
Planeteer


Registered: 01/06/01
Posts: 2579
Fascinating, Captain.
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#852782 - 04/21/09 07:08 PM Re: am I a goner? [Re: jim y]
dhart Offline
Planeteer


Registered: 12/19/01
Posts: 569
Loc: albany, ny
I'm a Doctor, Jim, not a Roland service tech!
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#852854 - 04/21/09 11:20 PM Re: am I a goner? [Re: dhart]
Cornjerker Offline
Planeteer


Registered: 11/16/04
Posts: 5597
Loc: CornvILLe
We've GOT to RISK a FULL-POWER start!
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#852978 - 04/22/09 09:58 AM Re: am I a goner? [Re: Cornjerker]
VSfredy Offline
Planeteer


Registered: 04/14/09
Posts: 49
Loc: Washington, USA
I would like to find a busted VS-840 for peanuts to try and restore it. Thinking about putting logic analyzer on one to observe the bootup.

Currently have an 880 all apart waiting for new sliders from Mouser. The 880 ones are different than the 840 sliders. They are 60mm travel instead of 45mm and different configuration. Iwill report on that one when done.

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#853439 - 04/23/09 12:22 PM Re: am I a goner? [Re: DrJugband]
jim y Offline
Planeteer


Registered: 01/06/01
Posts: 2579
I think a power supply fault ought to result in nothing working - not even a message on the LCD, since the 840 operation including disc seems to be powered mainly by 5volts, the other 2 supplies ( +12v & -12v ?) are (I think) for the audio circuits.
Jack - do you have service sheets that show the power supply arrangement?

I've recently seen a VS880 with a PSU fault although the supplies tested ok when disconnected from the boards. The owner was only interested in getting his songs off the fixed hard drive (successfully done) so I didn't pursue fixing it. I missed a trick there, I should have asked if I could keep the machine for spares. Duh!

Scotty

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#853512 - 04/23/09 02:57 PM Re: am I a goner? [Re: jim y]
Cornjerker Offline
Planeteer


Registered: 11/16/04
Posts: 5597
Loc: CornvILLe
No Jim, the Service manual (that I can tell) does not indicate the output voltages of the PSU - it is AC 117 V, AC 230 V, AC 240V, consumption 20 W, find no. 3 on the exploded view, Roland p/n 01451678 or 01785823, "Switching Regulator KW1AA265" or "Switching Regulator A1DU2L3B034", respectively.

PS - I have a 5 gal batch of English Bitters in the carboy and will bottle next Wednesday after the sediment settles out completely. It'll be ready to drink in 3-4 weeks. Shall I expect you? ;^)

Jack

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#853580 - 04/23/09 05:06 PM Re: am I a goner? [Re: Cornjerker]
jim y Offline
Planeteer


Registered: 01/06/01
Posts: 2579
If you used malted barley, hops and stirred thrice widdershins - maybe. Did you remember to add a slice of Manglewurzel?

Don't forget - Ale is drunk at room temperature. This is because you are expected to enjoy the flavour and not have your taste buds numbed out as you have to with chilled beer. Don't worry, you can still get drunk as a Lord.

;\)

Jim

PS - Some of the above is untrue.

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#853593 - 04/23/09 05:15 PM Re: am I a goner? [Re: jim y]
Cornjerker Offline
Planeteer


Registered: 11/16/04
Posts: 5597
Loc: CornvILLe
It's still a fairly new hobby for me, Jim, so I haven't done any all-grain brewing. It's the 60 minute boil kits I'm using with malt extract with steeped grains and hops ... though the hour long boil kits take about 3-1/2 hours from start to primary fermentor as the grain steep (30 minutes) is before the hour long boil - takes about 20-30 minutes to bring the water up to steep temp and another 10 to bring it to boil and about 20-30 minutes to cool to room temp and strain into the fermenter ... still it's fun and makes a nice beer ... perhaps one of these days I'll get into it enough to design my own beers and grow hops ...

But for now, I'm satisfied to drink it and piss like a fire-hose ... ;\)

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#853840 - 04/24/09 10:26 AM Re: am I a goner? [Re: jim y]
VSfredy Offline
Planeteer


Registered: 04/14/09
Posts: 49
Loc: Washington, USA
Jim, I have seen so many problems due to marginal power supplies in electronic equipment I can't count them!

EVEN putting a dummy load on a supply does NOT guarantee it will operate the equipment.

The SAFE way to check a power supply: Connected to the normal load it operates, use a meter to verify voltage level is within at least 5% of the design. For the 5 volt supplies, I like to see it within the range of 4.85 to 5.15 volts to be safe. Some equipment have a voltage sensor chip to reset if the power is too low. We aren't done yet... Next we use an oscilloscope to verify the power is clean DC. Can't tell you how many I have seen where voltage reads right but dips or spikes below the threshold of operation of the device causing failure.

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#859727 - 05/12/09 12:32 AM Re: am I a goner? [Re: VSfredy]
DrJugband Offline
Planeteer


Registered: 03/20/07
Posts: 40
Loc: Australia
I've tried several permutations of startup disc and 'am convinced that I won't be able to reflash off the zip drive. The error message actually flashes up as the zip drive fires up, so doesn't even wait to read it. I've tried the 1.02v and 1.05v system discs. Is there any likelihood that the Roland disc is anything different?
_________________________
DrJugband

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#859880 - 05/12/09 04:25 PM Re: am I a goner? [Re: DrJugband]
VSfredy Offline
Planeteer


Registered: 04/14/09
Posts: 49
Loc: Washington, USA
Do you know for a fact the zip drive itself is OK?

Connecting it to a computer MIGHT be more forgiving than the VS-840.

Couple things to try: Degauss the zip disk before formatting in preparation of copying thee file to it.

Second thing is to try a different drivee. I have found two that had gone defective in the VS units I have.

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#860437 - 05/13/09 10:49 PM Re: am I a goner? [Re: VSfredy]
DrJugband Offline
Planeteer


Registered: 03/20/07
Posts: 40
Loc: Australia
The zip drive works fine when installed in the computer (a G4 PowerMac) and whirs to life just as it used to in the VS840. I don't have a spare drive to test or the ability to reformat a disc from scratch (my VS840 isn't working). I've been working my way through previously formatted discs (and removing song files) and then writing the supplied file onto the disc and trying that. I have a disc from Roland Australia with 1.05 system on it, but that didn't solve my 'Can't Match CPU' either.
_________________________
DrJugband

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#860547 - 05/14/09 09:51 AM Re: am I a goner? [Re: DrJugband]
Cornjerker Offline
Planeteer


Registered: 11/16/04
Posts: 5597
Loc: CornvILLe
DrJugband - you're confirming what we've seen and concluded for several years now - that error requires a trip to Roland Service for cycling with a special 'service level' repair disk that only Roland Service has.

If I were you, I'd find someone with a PC, pull your tracks off of the ZIP 100 disks with the (PC) BR8 to WAV converter, and port them to your Mac to mix with whatever multi-track software suits you. The money you would spend to repair your 840 is probably better spent at this point on a Mac recording interface / software.

Sourceforge Audacity is available for Mac/Apple OS X if you need a free software solution for now: http://audacity.sourceforge.net/download/

A USB interface such as http://cgi.ebay.com.au/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=200340348396 would have you up and running inexpensively ...

And I'd stuff that 840 in a closet for the day someone acquires that Roland disk and makes it available to the community or someone figures out a way to fix it without a trip to Roland Service.

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#860593 - 05/14/09 12:05 PM Re: am I a goner? [Re: Cornjerker]
VSfredy Offline
Planeteer


Registered: 04/14/09
Posts: 49
Loc: Washington, USA
Jack, do you know of a source of one of these dead units to do experiments on? I am thinking of connecting my logic analyzer up to one to try and analyze the failure to start.
If Roland won't cooperate we need to take drastic measures.
I would like to get one that I can safely cobble up to connect the analyzer... can't invest too much and if unsuccessful I look at it as a spare parts bucket. The Roland disk must just have a specific boot record for the processor in the 840...

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#860610 - 05/14/09 12:56 PM Re: am I a goner? [Re: VSfredy]
Cornjerker Offline
Planeteer


Registered: 11/16/04
Posts: 5597
Loc: CornvILLe
No source for a dead unit that I know of ... note that I have searched the 840 forum for the 'Bad Flash' messages and tried contacting the users who posted them to see how they made out, but none replied. One of the few users to report back that they recovered their dead 840, was GrahamPrie who is in the UK - his post / thread is here: http://www.vsplanet.com/ubbthreads/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=685059#Post685059

One of these days, I'd like to phone some of the Roland authorized service centers in my area (Chicago) to see if they have the service disk and if I can acquire a copy of it.

For a source of broken 840's, best bet is probably eBay. Another place might be an electronics repair shop - there was one I used in the Fremont district when I had my old Tascam Portastudio - when they could not get the replacement part to fix it, I left it with them - they had a storage room filled with busted music gear that they used for spare parts ... wish I could think of the name of the place, but it's been 15-20 years ... perhaps if you started with the Roland US web site and located the authorized Roland service depots in your ara, one might have a dead 840 you could pick up cheap?

See http://www.rolandus.com/support/service_centers/

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#860967 - 05/15/09 09:24 AM Re: am I a goner? [Re: Cornjerker]
VSfredy Offline
Planeteer


Registered: 04/14/09
Posts: 49
Loc: Washington, USA
American Music in Fremont used to repair stuff... It was probably them or a shop servicing for them.

I will watch on eBay... everything there I have been able to fix so far.

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#865640 - 05/30/09 10:17 PM Re: am I a goner? [Re: VSfredy]
DrJugband Offline
Planeteer


Registered: 03/20/07
Posts: 40
Loc: Australia
I'd be happy to dedicate my unit to science..it's the doctor in me.
If you can't source a unit closer to home, VSfredy, and can make the conversion from 240v's. Let me know...
_________________________
DrJugband

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#877788 - 07/13/09 04:43 PM Re: am I a goner? [Re: DrJugband]
VSfredy Offline
Planeteer


Registered: 04/14/09
Posts: 49
Loc: Washington, USA
Haven't found one yet... You are a long ways away for shipping though.

I am still looking... the 240 conversion is not a problem.

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#1379417 - 03/22/15 02:48 PM Re: am I a goner? [Re: DrJugband]
goner Offline
Planeteer


Registered: 06/19/01
Posts: 9938
Loc: The Ministry of Silly Walks
 Originally Posted By: DrJugband
are you referring to me?? am i a goner?


I have met goner, and you sir, are no goner.
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goner

He's loaded up his saddlebags out on the edge of wonder
The one is filled with music and the other's filled with thunder

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