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#782295 - 10/30/08 10:34 PM Re: am I a goner? [Re: Cornjerker]
DrJugband Offline
Planeteer


Registered: 03/20/07
Posts: 40
Loc: Australia
I have been watching your posts and will continue to as I'm hoping it will bear fruit. I don't know if any members are near Phil Delahey's shop in the UK as he seemed ok about copying the disk if he had the means. It would need a zip drive to lift the file off the disk and maybe that could be posted. We could then make our own versions of a recovery disc on a VS formated disc. So easy yet so....I know you want to go through the right channels. I should get delivery of my new unit (yes I did buy Roland again!) this week...
Thanks for all the help so far!
_________________________
DrJugband

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#782736 - 10/31/08 06:45 PM Re: am I a goner? [Re: DrJugband]
dhart Offline
Planeteer


Registered: 12/19/01
Posts: 569
Loc: albany, ny
 Originally Posted By: DrJugband
I should get delivery of my new unit (yes I did buy Roland again!) this week...


C'mon Mr President of Roland! We're loyal, we want to do the right thing, we're loyal, we're good looking (at least online) and we're loyal. You know in your heart you ought to help us out on this.

Pretty please?

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#782737 - 10/31/08 06:45 PM Re: am I a goner? [Re: dhart]
dhart Offline
Planeteer


Registered: 12/19/01
Posts: 569
Loc: albany, ny
with sugar on top?
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#782861 - 10/31/08 09:57 PM Re: am I a goner? [Re: dhart]
Cornjerker Offline
Planeteer


Registered: 11/16/04
Posts: 5597
Loc: CornvILLe
If he doesn't comply, I'll kidnap him and make him listen to music recorded on a Fostex 4 track, with a bad case of wow and flutter, 24x7 until he caves ...
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#785791 - 11/06/08 01:36 PM Re: am I a goner? [Re: Cornjerker]
Bassball Offline
Space Cadet


Registered: 04/17/08
Posts: 23
Fostex - I had one long time ago... HISSSSSSSSSSSSSS

ANyway, I'm probably nearest to this British willing flashzip owner, but still it's a Northsea to cross. But I'd be very willing to try to copy it if he snakemailed it to me... promise to be very careful... and return it swiftly!

BTW never heard from my Dutch Roland center... darn

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#786170 - 11/07/08 07:24 AM Re: am I a goner? [Re: Bassball]
Bassball Offline
Space Cadet


Registered: 04/17/08
Posts: 23
Well, I found a RSS here that answered my mail; as far as i understand they do have a recovery disc.
I will ask them if they can send it... that way I won't have to send my VS 840 to them.

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#786213 - 11/07/08 09:47 AM Re: am I a goner? [Re: Bassball]
Cornjerker Offline
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Registered: 11/16/04
Posts: 5597
Loc: CornvILLe
Good luck!
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#786655 - 11/07/08 11:41 PM Re: am I a goner? [Re: Cornjerker]
DrJugband Offline
Planeteer


Registered: 03/20/07
Posts: 40
Loc: Australia
Hope you can share the love, Baseball
_________________________
DrJugband

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#815793 - 01/22/09 05:00 AM Re: am I a goner? [Re: DrJugband]
DrJugband Offline
Planeteer


Registered: 03/20/07
Posts: 40
Loc: Australia
My grey doorstop is gathering dust. Still keen on that rescue from Mr Houlihan.
_________________________
DrJugband

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#829001 - 02/20/09 06:27 AM Re: am I a goner? [Re: DrJugband]
Bassball Offline
Space Cadet


Registered: 04/17/08
Posts: 23
HEY!
Wake up and smell the roses, it's finally here (from Norway)! Just opened the box, unwrapped the disk and found the text

VS-840/VS-840S
SYSTEM ZIP DISK
(for Service)
Version 1.02
P/N 17048691

Now I hope this is not the disk we already knew...
Before trying anything, I'll try to back it up.

Well, I made a kind of backup to a previously used zip, put it in the bad flash-machine, nothing.
So I put in the original disk into the machine.
Guess what!
IT WORKED!!!
I've got a &*^%&^% working Service disk!!!

I think Cornjerker is the person to center all further activities, aren't you?



Edited by Bassball (02/20/09 07:07 AM)

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#829064 - 02/20/09 09:26 AM Re: am I a goner? [Re: Bassball]
Cornjerker Offline
Planeteer


Registered: 11/16/04
Posts: 5597
Loc: CornvILLe
 Originally Posted By: Bassball
I've got a &*^%&^% working Service disk!!!

I think Cornjerker is the person to center all further activities, aren't you?


HOT DAMN! You da man, Bass! ;\)

I'm not really centered, but I do (probably) have the ability to copy that disk - with a SCSI equipped VS-840EX and several external SCSI ZIP drives and ZIP drive in the PC. If you wanted to send the disk to me, I'll make and send copies of it back out and see if it can be archived and put on my site ( http://vs840.vjam.net ) ... I'm hopeful still that Roland will come clean with the complaint I've filed with the California Better Business Board (BBB) - and the responsibility to furnish that disk is theirs - but - if they are going to gouge us and abandon us, then the heck with 'em.

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#829067 - 02/20/09 09:40 AM Re: am I a goner? [Re: Cornjerker]
Bassball Offline
Space Cadet


Registered: 04/17/08
Posts: 23
Hey Corn,

I'd like to hold on to the disk a bit, but I can send you the files on it (I have a zip drive dangling from my computer); now my VS works again I am also able again to VS-format a zip disk, and I put the files on that, so that SHOULD work; but the ultimate test would be to bad flash my 840 again... I may be stupid, but... are you in a position to do such a test?

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#829135 - 02/20/09 11:53 AM Re: am I a goner? [Re: Bassball]
Cornjerker Offline
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Registered: 11/16/04
Posts: 5597
Loc: CornvILLe
On whether I can bad-flash an 840 - while I have the 'technical expertise' to do that, I wouldn't want to.

I just wrote you an email and / PM - the file list you sent on that disk, shows it to be a standard VS-840 initialized disk, with a v1.02 $SYSPRO2.VS1 system flash/update file in the root directory.

As in the email/PM, now that you have used it, check the root directory for the presence of a NEW file that serves as a 'marker' that the disk has been used to flash your machine.

What neither of us can tell, is whether there is a unique boot-track on that disk, or, whether that's a special version of the $SYSPRO2.VS1 file? Or, is there something that's simply unique about the v1.02 $SYSPRO2.VS1 file from the later versions that allows for doing a flash update on a corrupt ROM BIOS?

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#829379 - 02/20/09 08:55 PM Re: am I a goner? [Re: Cornjerker]
dhart Offline
Planeteer


Registered: 12/19/01
Posts: 569
Loc: albany, ny
That's great, Bassball.

But now what are you going to do for a door stop, I hear it can get chilly in Norway in the winter?

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#829442 - 02/20/09 11:16 PM Re: am I a goner? [Re: bert]
Cornjerker Offline
Planeteer


Registered: 11/16/04
Posts: 5597
Loc: CornvILLe
Roland supplies an SMF player that works with windows, and you can queue up the MIDI files in order from your PC.
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#830481 - 02/23/09 09:17 PM Re: am I a goner? [Re: Cornjerker]
Cornjerker Offline
Planeteer


Registered: 11/16/04
Posts: 5597
Loc: CornvILLe
Bassball, et al,

Jim Y was kind enough to send me the original v1.02 $SYSPRO2.VS1 file that Roland US formerly had on their web site. Bassball also sent me an archive of all the files on the 'Service' disk - which by all appearances, is nothing more than a VS-840 initialized ZIP 100 disk with a v1.02 $SYSPRO2.VS1 file in the root directory.

While I don't have the software to compare the 2 $SYSPRO2.VS1 files to see whether they are identical, I did load them both up in a HEX editor and compared them at various points on the file and near as I can tell, they are identical.

So, it would seem that the "SERVICE" disk Bassball used to restore his 'BAD FLASH' VS-840, is simply a v1.02 ROM update disk.

Bass - I don't know if you just got lucky, or if it is as you and Bert have suggested - that perhaps the "can't version up" message simply means that it can't version up beyond the original software and the machine needs to reinstall / reset to v1.02.

Bass, you said you wrote DrJugBand, didn't you? If he can recover with a v1.02 disk, might be you've found the solution.

Jack

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#832830 - 03/01/09 02:40 AM Re: am I a goner? [Re: Cornjerker]
DrJugband Offline
Planeteer


Registered: 03/20/07
Posts: 40
Loc: Australia
Sorry to be a downer, but my 'don't match CPU' vs840 is not falling for the baseball 1.02 disk . It hardly has a look at the disk before showing the error message. Maybe my CPU is scewed??
_________________________
DrJugband

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#839750 - 03/16/09 08:06 PM Re: am I a goner? [Re: DrJugband]
bathhunger Offline
Space Cadet


Registered: 03/16/09
Posts: 6
Loc: AL, USA
Hey all,

I'm a little late coming into this but I have the same problem. It sounds like in bass's experiment upon initially receiving the disk, a copy didn't work but then the original did.

Jug...when you say yours didn't fall for the bass 1.02 disk, was that the original or a copy? Bass had said he wanted to hold onto it for a bit (which is totally understandable), so I just want to make sure I know where we are right now before I throw in any further thoughts.

Hoping we can all get through this somehow, someday...
_________________________
"Redemption! Redemption for you manatees!" - misheard lyrics to Dream Theater's In The Presence of Enemies Pt.1

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#839802 - 03/16/09 10:11 PM Re: am I a goner? [Re: bathhunger]
Cornjerker Offline
Planeteer


Registered: 11/16/04
Posts: 5597
Loc: CornvILLe
I can't imagine it makes a difference whether original or copy ... in Roland's reply to my BBB complaint (see http://www.vsplanet.com/ubbthreads/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=831545#Post831545 ) they say the disk that will fix it is NOT AVAILABLE TO THE PUBLIC and has COPY PROTECTION to prevent it's distribution via the web or user to user copying.

I'm 99.99% sure Bass just has a plain old v1.02 system disk, which anyone can make, by putting the v1.02 $SYSPRO2.VS1 file on a VS-840 ZIP disk (must have been formatted previously by a VS-840).

Sometimes, those plain old update disks will recover the error, and sometimes not - it must depend on where and how severely the ROM is corrupted.

Note that, when a ROM is corrupted, SOMETIMES it will respond to the button push to initiate MIDI SYSEX RECEIVE and sometimes not ... I was one of the lucky ones to recover from a BAD FLASH via MIDI - as my machine still had enough ROM code left to effect the SYSEX update ... others try the MIDI route, and it doesn't work because, I suppose, the ROM is TOO corrupted.

IF you are the original owner, with proof of purchase, why not take Roland up on the repair for free offer in their BBB reply?

If you are a 2nd hand owner and you can't recover by DISK or MIDI, you'll have to pay Roland or a local authorized repair center to fix it.

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#840020 - 03/17/09 11:33 AM Re: am I a goner? [Re: Cornjerker]
bathhunger Offline
Space Cadet


Registered: 03/16/09
Posts: 6
Loc: AL, USA
Sorry, I'm not trying to go in circles. But the reason I think original vs. copy makes a difference is because it looks like in Bassball's case, it did actually make a difference (#829001 - 02/20/09 07:27 AM).

I understand that Roland says the disk is not available, but unless I read Bassball's report incorrectly, we have "something" that worked while a backup of that same "something" did not, on the same broken system.

It is entirely possible that only a low level bit by bit copy would produce a usable backup. This is the same concept as people who have to create perfect images to backup their Playstation games. (edit: putting all the identical files on a formatted disc doesn't guarantee that it is properly organized and recognized by the system)

Anyway, sorry if I'm being slow on the uptake. Have I overlooked where the v1.02 file might be laying around so I can at least try the copy method? I found the 1.05 but not the 1.02.

Alternatively, Bassball, would you be willing to let me ship my broken VS840 to you, and have you try both the backup you made (which failed for you) and the original you got in the mail (which worked for you)?

I'm not the original owner and I have heard some horror stories about Roland's service. I'd like to exhaust every other option before I try that route.

Also I just realized I never introduced myself in my first post and sorry for that. My name is Dave, and I'm a software engineer from Alabama. I've had my VS840 for a few years and got hit with this problem about three months ago.


Edited by bathhunger (03/17/09 11:49 AM)
_________________________
"Redemption! Redemption for you manatees!" - misheard lyrics to Dream Theater's In The Presence of Enemies Pt.1

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#840039 - 03/17/09 12:24 PM Re: am I a goner? [Re: bathhunger]
Cornjerker Offline
Planeteer


Registered: 11/16/04
Posts: 5597
Loc: CornvILLe
Hi Dave,

Nor am I trying to disparage you. Years ago, Jim Y and I used some sector editors to examine the boot block of an 840 formatted ZIP 100 disk and determined there was nothing unique about them. The 840 simply has a routine in ROM that looks for the presence of a system update file when it reads a disk. If found, it prompts "System Update? Y/N" (or the like), if not, it just loads the song on the SONG0000.vs1 folder by default.

Though admittedly, with the potential for blowing up the system, doing ROM updates isn't something we've done repeatedly to learn how it works.

I put the v1.02 system update file on line for you - I didn't have it - but Jim Y sent it a couple weeks ago via email attach. You can find it online here if you want to make your own v1.02 disk and attempt recovery:

http://vs840.vjam.net/840Z102.ZIP

There's a TXT file in it with instructions. Use a VS-840 formatted ZIP 100 disk, put it in your PC's ZIP drive and copy the $SYSPRO2.VS1 file in the ZIP archive to the ZIP disk. Then put it in your VS-840 drive and press the power button.

Good luck.

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#840040 - 03/17/09 12:25 PM Re: am I a goner? [Re: Cornjerker]
Cornjerker Offline
Planeteer


Registered: 11/16/04
Posts: 5597
Loc: CornvILLe
PS - it's been awhile since I was in Alabama. I loved working in Huntsville at the Arsenal for 3-4 months - on transfer from Boeing in Seattle. If I could have relocated there, I would have - but it was just a loan to get through some of the space station technical audits and when the work was done, it was back to Seattle for me.

Jack

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#840064 - 03/17/09 12:55 PM Re: am I a goner? [Re: Cornjerker]
bathhunger Offline
Space Cadet


Registered: 03/16/09
Posts: 6
Loc: AL, USA
Thanks, Jack.

I didn't realize you had checked them out that closely. You're probably right, then...although part of me still can't help but wonder about the difference in Bassball's experience. There may be mysteries in the architecture of this device that we'll never be able to unravel.

Thanks for the v1.02 file, too. I'm going to hope for the best and give it a try. I'll let you all know what happens.

Here in Birmingham, we have just entered that nice time of year where you don't have run the heat or the A/C, just crack a couple of windows. I expect it to last for about another three days!
_________________________
"Redemption! Redemption for you manatees!" - misheard lyrics to Dream Theater's In The Presence of Enemies Pt.1

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#840315 - 03/18/09 07:50 AM Re: am I a goner? [Re: bathhunger]
bathhunger Offline
Space Cadet


Registered: 03/16/09
Posts: 6
Loc: AL, USA
Well I don't think this is going to come as much of a surprise to anyone, but it didn't work.

Thanks again, anyway, for posting the file.
_________________________
"Redemption! Redemption for you manatees!" - misheard lyrics to Dream Theater's In The Presence of Enemies Pt.1

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#840357 - 03/18/09 10:08 AM Re: am I a goner? [Re: bathhunger]
Cornjerker Offline
Planeteer


Registered: 11/16/04
Posts: 5597
Loc: CornvILLe
You could go to the RolandUS site and use their service center locater for a place near you - there's none in Birmingham, but a few within driving distance. See http://www.rolandus.com/support/service_centers/

This BTW, is where I think Roland is plain f'ing criminal. There is a disk that will fix this, but they won't release it to the public. They know the OS in the 840 is WEAK and allows for these errors with a power interruption, disk ejection, or following ROLAND's instructions for a flash update and thereby rendering the 840 inoperative. Still, they charge users to fix what is clearly a design flaw / weakness in the 840.

IMO, they are deserving of the "F" given to them by the Better Business Bureau.

Roland's response is disappointing to me - I was out looking at amps last weekend and I won't even consider the Roland cube amps, because Roland abandoned the 840 community and has cheated owners with failed machines. As an owner/user, that they decided to simply NOT RESPOND to me through the BBB, is contemptuous and irresponsible on their part. I damn sure won't buy anything Roland / Boss / Edirol ever again.

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#840854 - 03/19/09 10:32 AM Re: am I a goner? [Re: Cornjerker]
bathhunger Offline
Space Cadet


Registered: 03/16/09
Posts: 6
Loc: AL, USA
Thanks for the link. I might take it up to Warrior. I'd hate to fix it only to have it happen again though, no matter how careful I might be.

I'm to the point now where all I really care about is getting usable copies of what had been recently recorded. There is some stuff that I just jammed and the recording is the only way to remember what I did. I've pulled the files off the zips and now I just have to convert them and piece them back together. I searched the forum and it looks like Reaper might be something to try?

I've seen the BBB interaction that you've posted around here and I am in complete agreement with you. I've told all my friends how they have behaved, and hopefully word will spread far and fast.
_________________________
"Redemption! Redemption for you manatees!" - misheard lyrics to Dream Theater's In The Presence of Enemies Pt.1

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#840910 - 03/19/09 12:54 PM Re: am I a goner? [Re: bathhunger]
Cornjerker Offline
Planeteer


Registered: 11/16/04
Posts: 5597
Loc: CornvILLe
Bathhunger, have you discovered the BR8 to WAV converter?

http://vs840.vjam.net/BR8_to_WAV_Converter.exe

It runs under Windows, sees VS-840 formatted ZIP 100 disks inserted in your PC's ZIP drive, and converts the ROLAND format files to WAV 2 tracks at a time.

Once saved as WAV, you can load them up in whatever software sequencer you have.

...

About your VS-840, if you POWER UP while pressing MODE, INPUT and ENTER, does the 840 screen display the "Receive Midi-Ex Yes/No" prompt? If so, does it respond with "Now Waiting" if you press "Yes"?

If so, you may be able to recover your 840 via MIDI.

For that, you need the Roland SMF Player ( http://vs840.vjam.net/SMFPLAYR.ZIP ) AND the v1.05 MIDI files ( http://vs840.vjam.net/VS840v105.zip ) AND a MIDI cable to connect your computer MIDI out to the VS-840 MIDI IN. That you can do via USB MIDI or Game Port MIDI on your PC.

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#846207 - 04/01/09 10:04 PM Re: am I a goner? [Re: Cornjerker]
DrJugband Offline
Planeteer


Registered: 03/20/07
Posts: 40
Loc: Australia
Been away; my VS840 is still dead and did not recover with the disc I made with the 1.02v files posted by bassball. When I power up, the error message "don't match cpu" comes up only a split second after the disc drive fires up, as though it doesn't even have a look at what's on it. Do you reckon this is still recoverable via a disk?
_________________________
DrJugband

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#846308 - 04/02/09 09:25 AM Re: am I a goner? [Re: DrJugband]
Cornjerker Offline
Planeteer


Registered: 11/16/04
Posts: 5597
Loc: CornvILLe
What we've learned through the scant information we can PRY out of Roland suggests only a dealer can fix it, with a special disk that will forcibly rewrite the BIOS ROM code.

In the US, Roland has offered to fix for FREE any 840 rendered inoperable with a "Don't Match CPU" error for ORIGINAL OWNERS with PROOF OF PURCHASE. The owner simply needs to call Roland, get an RA number and pay for shipping to the Roland service center in Los Angeles. Roland will pay the return shipping.

No idea what a brother in Australia has to do.

Have you tried writing Roland Australia at support@rolandcorp.com.au ?

There's a Dealer / Service locater at http://www.rolandcorp.com.au/default.aspx?pg=LocateDealer ... enter VS in the "Find Retailers that Sell" field and enter your location in the other 2 fields. Authorized service centers appear at the bottom of the list of results.



Edited by Cornjerker (04/02/09 09:31 AM)
Edit Reason: added service center info

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#847208 - 04/04/09 05:38 PM Re: am I a goner? [Re: Cornjerker]
dhart Offline
Planeteer


Registered: 12/19/01
Posts: 569
Loc: albany, ny
 Originally Posted By: Cornjerker
The owner simply needs to ...


...pray that they still have the proof of purchase from back in 2000 or so.

I don't think that's going to help me much if I get in trouble, so I guess I'll just focus on being careful. Of course, at the rate I've been using it recently a powering off error is a low risk occurrence. \:\(

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#847210 - 04/04/09 05:42 PM Re: am I a goner? [Re: dhart]
Cornjerker Offline
Planeteer


Registered: 11/16/04
Posts: 5597
Loc: CornvILLe
Me too Dave ... between kitchen remodel, making photo/music/videos for my niece and nephew's graduation, playing guitar for Grease at the high school, I haven't had time for my own music since last fall ...
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#847558 - 04/05/09 07:37 PM Re: am I a goner? [Re: Cornjerker]
DrJugband Offline
Planeteer


Registered: 03/20/07
Posts: 40
Loc: Australia
I did converse with Roland Aus (Sydney) and they kindly sent me a disc with v1.05 and said if that didn't work they would have to replace the motherboard. They denied any knowledge of any other recovery disc.
_________________________
DrJugband

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#848434 - 04/08/09 01:46 PM Re: am I a goner? [Re: Cornjerker]
bathhunger Offline
Space Cadet


Registered: 03/16/09
Posts: 6
Loc: AL, USA
I've been away for a while too but figured I'd give you an update on what you suggested. I tried powering up while holding MODE, INPUT, and ENTER and unfortunately got nothing.

Thanks for the link to the converter, I will give it a try whenever I can find a few spare minutes...been absolutely crazy lately!
_________________________
"Redemption! Redemption for you manatees!" - misheard lyrics to Dream Theater's In The Presence of Enemies Pt.1

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#848767 - 04/09/09 11:48 AM Re: am I a goner? [Re: DrJugband]
jim y Offline
Planeteer


Registered: 01/06/01
Posts: 2579
Don't know if it's already been said but...
An update disc won't update twice - neither then will a direct copy of a used disc.
IIRC, the update process places a marker file, the name of which I have forgotten, onto that disc - presumably to prevent another update if the disc is put in again.
It should be possible to remove the extra file on a pc with a zip drive - it will be whatever is additional to the default 840 files and the syspro file.

I wouldn't mind betting that the "protected" repair disc that Roland have is nothing more than "Write Protected" to prevent the marker file appearing so they can easily reuse the same disc.
IIRC, Iomega had a software utility "Zip Tools" that provided software protection for the discs. It can probably still be had as a free download from Iomega.

This is not to say that an 840 cannot be fried beyond help, because if the system bootloader is corrupt it won't get anywhere. That said, most of these sort of CPU's have a standard bootloader hard coded in an onboard ROM memory OR can be loaded by a serial interface connection on the chip.

Jim

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#852123 - 04/19/09 05:18 PM Re: am I a goner? [Re: DrJugband]
VSfredy Offline
Planeteer


Registered: 04/14/09
Posts: 49
Loc: Washington, USA
This is what I would try: I would put a Zip 100 drive in place of the CF. See if you can access and get the message for MIDI version up. If you can, re-install 1.05 with MIDI.

Then build the Zip 100 version up disk. Format on the VS-840 and then move it to PC and delete all the files on it LEAVING it formatted as the VS-840. Copy Cornjerker's $Syspro2 file for 2.05 to the disk. Put the ZIP back in the VS-840 and turn power on... and pray...

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