#834755 - 03/05/09 09:51 AM
Lyrics -- are rarely discussed here...
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kid-surf
Planeteer
Registered: 09/21/99
Posts: 14908
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...And I find that interesting. Probably more so now because I write so much. What's interesting to me now is that I suddenly realize how weak so many lyrics are, and, how great the best lyrics are.
I would say that this is definitely one area that separates a phenomenal songwriter from an OK songwriter. Can't just have great music in order for it to be a great "song".
I feel the problem/obstacle, much of the time, is not a lack of talent but more so a lack of knowing how to express one's self with words - learning how to. We often assume it comes naturally, nope, it's a learned skill. We are often so used to writing musical notes that "matter" that we lose sight of how important the lyrics are - particularly in the great/iconic songs.
What's interesting to me is that I would be able to write MUCH stronger lyrics today vs. just two years ago (if I had any time to write a song). I wouldn't say that anything in me particularly changed, only that I know better how to express what's in me in word-form. I know how to (not in threads :D) get to the point, I also know how to edit. Most importantly, I'm learning that there are many more layers to peel.
...I'm learning a hell of a lot (everyday it's something new). I have the privilege now of working with a few phenomenal producers. Ok, I "get" how to write movies, not that it's easy, but I "get it", I've done it. But I'm also creating a TV show. I've watched how many TV-shows in my lifetime? Shouldn't I just "get" how to then write one? What I'm finding out is that I don't, not really, even though I thought I did. We're cracking this thing slowly but surely (which is normal). What I am faced with (working with a producer) is tons of questions. These questions are designed to guide me toward what it is I 'actually' wish to portray, at the core, as opposed to my initial instincts. This is both extremely difficult and fascinating. Fascinating because, just when I assume that I'm to this place, this place of truth, I'm not...there's still more to give. The producer pulls out of me much more than I thought was down there. It's a very strange experience when you are so used to making all these creative decisions yourself. It's both humbling and inspiring.
Where I'm going with this is: I think many of us are certain we are expressing what we wish to portray lyrically...when, the fact of the matter is that we are often not yet scraping the bottom of the well, so to speak.
Interestingly, this is a topic of little conversation here. I feel it's simply due to so much time spent focused on the actual notes/fidelity of the tune. Yet, for songwriters (as opposed to band guys) the audience's CONNECTION to the ARTIST often lie in how well that artist expresses their POV.
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#834756 - 03/05/09 10:40 AM
Re: Lyrics -- are rarely discussed here...
[Re: kid-surf]
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Delso
Planeteer
Registered: 06/27/99
Posts: 16177
Loc: the beautiful Blackmore Vale
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I agree with the sentiment 100%. The post could use a little editing, though! 
Personally, I get more out of expressing myself lyrically than musically.
I'm no great shakes at composing fresh choons nor interesting riffs, nor at performing/recording them. As I've said before, I've had to learn all 'that stuff', to provide a backdrop for the words.
I agree that we Planeteers do tend to steer away from comments on lyrics; critiques tend to be of the "shoulda rolled off some 100hz at 4:32, dude" or "overdid the compression on the congas, IMO", but poor scansion, cliched, hackneyed lyrics, awkward phrasing, tend to pass without comment. It seems to be the one critique that's hardest to take.
When I was in a songwriting partnership, the singer/guitarist/composer would cheerfully mangle my lyrics, but make a workable song. Elton John used to do it to Bernie Taupin's words. Drove me nuts!
I try to avoid writing about imaginary stuff, but not imaginative stuff. I could never honestly write "I shot my woman down", but I could write, with honesty, "I want to shoot the woman next door and her yappy fucking dog."
There has to be some truth there, for me. The "canyons of my mind" schtick (c'mon, we've all done it!) doesn't stand up to things like "Penny Lane" or "Up The Junction", which are observational and have a ring of authenticity.
(Sorry this is a bit long. I have edited it, honest!)
Edited by Delso (03/05/09 10:42 AM)
Edit Reason: keep hitting the wrong keys.
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#834762 - 03/05/09 12:13 PM
Re: Lyrics -- are rarely discussed here...
[Re: Delso]
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vvmv
Planeteer
Registered: 09/06/08
Posts: 12383
Loc: atween
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I try to avoid writing about imaginary stuff, but not imaginative stuff. I could never honestly write "I shot my woman down", ....
I shot my woman down,
A little lower than I was aiming for,
Some hit her on the knee,
The rest landed on the floor.
For me, it's like the old saw about learn it all, then forget it and just do.
Unless I'm collabin', that is, where I wanna try and make multiple visions coherent.
Anymore, it's seldom that lyrics take me more than 10-15 minutes, altho' they get edited over and over until the final recording.
So, I think laziness izza factor, Max.
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#834865 - 03/05/09 05:14 PM
Re: Lyrics -- are rarely discussed here...
[Re: rhythmace47]
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vvmv
Planeteer
Registered: 09/06/08
Posts: 12383
Loc: atween
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We used to have some ongoing discussions before the revamp in the Creativity forum, as I recall.
I will say that I am sometimes tired of the standard rhythms and meters and rhyme schemes, and I have been trying for more use of repetition, internal rhyme and fragments, even in the collabs.
But if it's real craftmanship you seek,
Don't look at me, I'm just a geek,
As you can see, it's looking bleak,
For me to be more than a crafty ol' Greek.
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#834868 - 03/05/09 05:18 PM
Re: Lyrics -- are rarely discussed here...
[Re: vvmv]
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Vito1
Planeteer
Registered: 07/29/02
Posts: 7944
Loc: Florida, USA
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If you go over to the political forum, you'll find plenty of lyrics there. Words are expessed in many ways there; Some even funny. 
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#834879 - 03/05/09 05:46 PM
Re: Lyrics -- are rarely discussed here...
[Re: Vito1]
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bluenote
Planeteer
Registered: 02/24/07
Posts: 3042
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there are not enough writers that are truly students of the language. those that have a strong grasp, a true understanding of english and literature, usually read best to me. there have been many excepetions but writing is an art well entrenched in science.
songs that can survive strictly on the lyric are tough to come by...for me anyway. i was listening to Sting talk once about his education and how it helped him better express his written word than others in the rock world. he actually referenced jagger as being somewhat of a hack (my words not his).
Edited by bluenote (03/05/09 07:09 PM)
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#834908 - 03/05/09 07:14 PM
Re: Lyrics -- are rarely discussed here...
[Re: rhythmace47]
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bluenote
Planeteer
Registered: 02/24/07
Posts: 3042
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I bet if you thought about it long enough you could come up with hundreds, maybe thousands of songs that have charted over the years that have lyrics that are no more relevant than most nursery rhymes. That’s show biz ladies and germs!
i agree. i am not sure rock tunes is the best place to look for high level wordsmiths. besides.... melody, hooks, etc., can have such an impact people might not really hear all of the lyrics.
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#834920 - 03/05/09 07:27 PM
Re: Lyrics -- are rarely discussed here...
[Re: rhythmace47]
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kid-surf
Planeteer
Registered: 09/21/99
Posts: 14908
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Delso -- What's funny (to me) is that I'm pretty good at editing BUT FOR threads. Maybe it's that I know there's nothing I'm going to gain from editing a thread.
I agree that we Planeteers do tend to steer away from comments on lyrics; critiques tend to be of the "shoulda rolled off some 100hz at 4:32, dude" or "overdid the compression on the congas, IMO", but poor scansion, cliched, hackneyed lyrics, awkward phrasing, tend to pass without comment. It seems to be the one critique that's hardest to take.
Yep. S'what I'm talking about. Ironically, the songs we all point to as being "world class" normally have very strong lyrics aside from the strong melody etc.
rhythmace -- I guess I've missed those threads. I've not hung out in the Creativity Forum in ages.
Writing decent lyrics on the fly is sometimes easy. Writing bad lyrics on the fly is always easy. Writing painstaking great lyrics no matter how long it takes, is a bitch.
True...
See the pattern? I don’t! 
Funny... But...
I bet if you thought about it long enough you could come up with hundreds, maybe thousands of songs that have charted over the years that have lyrics that are no more relevant than most nursery rhymes. That’s show biz ladies and germs!
That sounds a little too close to an independent screenwriter saying that Hollywood blockbusters aren't well crafted.
It's true that there have been plenty of examples of "crap" doing well ($), but considering I'm not after that, it doesn't matter to me. Instead I focus on the works that have "charted", so to speak, yet were/are SOLID works. The works we've all come to know as "brilliant/inspired/etc".
Otherwise, I'd just be hoping to skate by and not do my job.
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#834922 - 03/05/09 07:30 PM
Re: Lyrics -- are rarely discussed here...
[Re: bluenote]
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kid-surf
Planeteer
Registered: 09/21/99
Posts: 14908
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I bet if you thought about it long enough you could come up with hundreds, maybe thousands of songs that have charted over the years that have lyrics that are no more relevant than most nursery rhymes. That’s show biz ladies and germs!
i agree. i am not sure rock tunes is the best place to look for high level wordsmiths. besides.... melody, hooks, etc., can have such an impact people might not really hear all of the lyrics.
Why are we only talking Rock? I love rock, but...?
Nah, I feel this sentiment is a cop out.
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#834940 - 03/05/09 07:59 PM
Re: Lyrics -- are rarely discussed here...
[Re: kid-surf]
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vvmv
Planeteer
Registered: 09/06/08
Posts: 12383
Loc: atween
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Lyrics are certainly as important as the music itself, a lot of the time.
Wilco and James McMurtry, the Stones (no matter what that Blue Turtle guy - who I also like says  ,) ZZ Top, Nirvana, just about any worthy musical act has had some songs where, even if it's just a refrain, it's a good refrain, and it makes the song.
And then you got your Creeds and your Chad-whose-band-sucks-so-bad-I-canna-remember-its-name, or even Metallica where the words seem to be intentionally secondary to the sound of 'em ...
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#834943 - 03/05/09 08:04 PM
Re: Lyrics -- are rarely discussed here...
[Re: vvmv]
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Vito1
Planeteer
Registered: 07/29/02
Posts: 7944
Loc: Florida, USA
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Heres your great lyrics for the last 30 years .... Pussy, pussy pussy,.... lick you all over.... Sweaty Body, .... Murder, death , Kill. Did I leave anything out? Lyrics, a no brainer for 30 years.
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#834948 - 03/05/09 08:15 PM
Re: Lyrics -- are rarely discussed here...
[Re: Vito1]
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SnappinGyro
Planeteer
Registered: 02/06/05
Posts: 2977
Loc: Detroit
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You left out bodunkadunk.
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#834977 - 03/05/09 08:43 PM
Re: Lyrics -- are rarely discussed here...
[Re: bluenote]
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kid-surf
Planeteer
Registered: 09/21/99
Posts: 14908
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Why are we only talking Rock? I love rock, but...?
Nah, I feel this sentiment is a cop out.
well, i would have to have something to cop out of, first. i spoke to rock because this is mostly a rock forum. i could go to classics and i think the writing improves a bit lyrically. but song lyrics is still not the best place for high level writing in my opinion. quite frankly, either is hollywood...no offense.
I agree w/you. But now...what does that matter?
Many Hollywood films/TV have garbage writing, doesn't mean I must therefore seek that out for myself. I don't. None of the folks I'm working with are after that either. It's far too easy for us to point to the works that are marginal, it's much harder for us to admit that, yes, some of this work is brilliant. In other words, chose your definition of an artist in your stylings who is brilliant...THAT is what I'm referring to. Now, how are you going to explain away their brilliance? That's what meant by the cop-out. I think it's human nature to reach for that first, but I don't think it's constructive. Ultimately we've got no choice but to admit the truth: That we know of several artists we feel are brilliant and that we aspire to that.
This is that conversation...
BTW -- We're not necessarily talking "important" lyrics, merely well crafted.
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#834979 - 03/05/09 08:47 PM
Re: Lyrics -- are rarely discussed here...
[Re: kid-surf]
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kid-surf
Planeteer
Registered: 09/21/99
Posts: 14908
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All I'm sayin' is...
Why not shoot for everything we've got..? Lyrics are in fact an aspect to song-writing.
What's next? "Well it's only the bass line, it's only the the drums, it's only the lead, it's only the keys, etc."
Ya know? It's all one "thing" to me. Every aspect is as important as the next.
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#834980 - 03/05/09 08:49 PM
Re: Lyrics -- are rarely discussed here...
[Re: Silversmith]
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kid-surf
Planeteer
Registered: 09/21/99
Posts: 14908
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And then there are guys like Lyle Lovett and John Hiatt who are, in my opinion two of the best lyricists ever.
Never've listened to Lovett, I'll have to give it a spin...
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#835007 - 03/05/09 09:40 PM
Re: Lyrics -- are rarely discussed here...
[Re: kid-surf]
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Vito1
Planeteer
Registered: 07/29/02
Posts: 7944
Loc: Florida, USA
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Boy, your good,
Part of it was from "Demolition Man", But no , the rest were from songs. hehehehe
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#835035 - 03/05/09 10:37 PM
Re: Lyrics -- are rarely discussed here...
[Re: Vito1]
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virtualan
Planeteer
Registered: 08/26/04
Posts: 14958
Loc: Sauchie, Scotland, UK
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Ocht! they're just words presented on a backdrop of rhythms and tones - what's new?
We still try to convey the message
Hooga-Booga! (as an early caveman once said)
The tribe has got bigger, the message has less value... and in the words and meaning in today's society.........
Wanna ride bikes!!!!!!?
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#835174 - 03/06/09 03:12 AM
Re: Lyrics -- are rarely discussed here...
[Re: virtualan]
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Popmann
Loquacious Planeteer
Registered: 05/23/02
Posts: 33081
Loc: Twangville, TN
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I hold myself to a different (higher) standard lyrically than people I like. I realize this. I can't really seem to change it.
I don't agree that they're all that important to me as a fan. BUT...you know, if you're going to be liberal enough to say it doesn't matter what they say as long as the pentameter and vowels are crafted to fit the melody and music-the way they roll of the tongue, you might have me on board. In fact, those factors are VERY important to the vocal being good...and I do believe that is king.
I think often that very simple, sincere lyrics are not only harder to write, but make for better vocals than the wordy and poetic. And sometimes, the same writer is responsible for great and god awful lyrics--on the same record. Pink comes to mind. First two singles on the new record--"So What" is absolutely a retarded lyric that's set to a catchy tune. "Sober" is one of the better pop lyrics I've heard recently. When they stop the music after the line "I don't want to be the girl who has to fill the silence" (insert a few beats of silence) "...the silence scares me cause it screams the truth"--very nice integration of lyric and music.
However, I will also say that, if it's not obvious, better lyrics are better...so long as they don't detract from, you know--the music.
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#835185 - 03/06/09 03:23 AM
Re: Lyrics -- are rarely discussed here...
[Re: Popmann]
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Tao Jones
Planeteer
Registered: 06/13/00
Posts: 15061
Loc: CA
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I am fascinated with lyrics.
I will probably join this topic later, but it's music window time right now, Baby!
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#835239 - 03/06/09 08:35 AM
Re: Lyrics -- are rarely discussed here...
[Re: Tao Jones]
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DAGtunes
Planeteer
Registered: 11/29/07
Posts: 7590
Loc: San Clemente, CA
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Interesting thread.
This will be a hard one to nail down, as it's very subjective.
I mean, how does one define a "great" lyric? Is it to be held to some academic standard? Do we turn our lyrics over to an English professor and see what kind of grade they get? 
I think not.
"Lyrics" are quite simply poetry put to music.
As a matter of fact - technically speaking - a "lyric" is an actual poetic form. Though song lyrics don't neccessarily follow the traditional "lyric poetry" form. They can be stanza forms, prose, free verse, a mixture of several forms...they can follow a rhyme scheme, or not...
They can be about subjects that are personal, common themes, or totally esoteric.
Just because something seems like total gibberish to one person doesn't mean that it lacks any meaning. One simply might not be familiar with the topic, subject, or jargon of the lyricist.
There are no hard and fast "rules" with this type of artistic expression - especially so with poetry and lyrics.
I would imagine screenplays and scripts are held to a different standard. If you write something only you can understand or relate to, it likely won't have a whole lot of "mass appeal."
Besides, others need to be able to grasp the concept quickly (to sell the idea), so clarity and direction are probably vital to those endeavors.
Not so with lyrics or poetry. Sometimes the depth of the mystery of thier origin only strengthens their appeal, as the listener tries to "wrap their brain around" what the "message" is. (If there even is one...)
That all said, I love a good lyric. 
But I've found lyrical greatness in the most humble of sources, as well as the most esteemed.
My own lyrics tend to come from personal experience, yet I try to craft them in a way that others can relate to, by writing in 3rd person a lot.
For example:
"...So alone, with his heart of stone, he longs for someone who understands. He won't let you see that he's dying inside from the fear that nobody can."
(Excerpt from "Money Isn't Everything" - DAGtunes copywrite 1994)
Although I do write a lot of first-person lyrics too...but that's what I know.
The best suggestion I've ever heard came from Neil Peart, who is one of my favorite lyricists...to paraphrase:
'To write great lyrics, one needs to read a lot.'
We each can only live so much. It takes experiences outside of our existence to open up our world view, and the best way to acheive that is through the writings and narratives of others.
There's a whole great big world out there, waiting to be discovered...and you don't even need to buy a ticket.
Off to sleep...perchance to dream. 
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#835240 - 03/06/09 08:39 AM
Re: Lyrics -- are rarely discussed here...
[Re: DAGtunes]
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Scottyjr
Planeteer
Registered: 04/02/06
Posts: 3468
Loc: KC
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Nowhere is Now Here..
If 6 was 9, would you mind?
Tomorrow is forever if you are just a memory..
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#835254 - 03/06/09 10:53 AM
Re: Lyrics -- are rarely discussed here...
[Re: Scottyjr]
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Delso
Planeteer
Registered: 06/27/99
Posts: 16177
Loc: the beautiful Blackmore Vale
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There's a song getting radio play over here called "I Went By", sung by Louise Marshall with the Jools Holland R'n B Orchestra backing her.
She has the usual impassioned modern R'n B delivery, but the lyrics are "I went by the post office,... the fish and chip shop, ...the public house, etc." It's meant to be kinda deep - think of a Lowry painting.
In order to make the words fit a rather predictable, Elton John-lite choon and arrangement, she has to torture the phrasing of these mundane images, squeezing syllables in and stressing the wrong words.
To me that's bad writing and the producer should have called them on it.
Whereas, a piece of drivel like "Mellow Yellow" works brilliantly as a pop song, because it's well-crafted.
_________________________
Artiste # 2 (those were the days!)
VS-Planet Syntax Snob and Deputy Spelling Nazi.
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#835260 - 03/06/09 12:12 PM
Re: Lyrics -- are rarely discussed here...
[Re: Delso]
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vvmv
Planeteer
Registered: 09/06/08
Posts: 12383
Loc: atween
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#835348 - 03/06/09 06:47 PM
Re: Lyrics -- are rarely discussed here...
[Re: vvmv]
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Delso
Planeteer
Registered: 06/27/99
Posts: 16177
Loc: the beautiful Blackmore Vale
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Ee-leck-trickle.
_________________________
Artiste # 2 (those were the days!)
VS-Planet Syntax Snob and Deputy Spelling Nazi.
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#835418 - 03/06/09 08:57 PM
Re: Lyrics -- are rarely discussed here...
[Re: Delso]
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rhythmace47
Planeteer/Artist 208
Planeteer
Registered: 05/17/02
Posts: 10437
Loc: Southern Wisconsin
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I think before you even think about becoming a songwriter you should have a good grasp of the English language, a dictionary, thesaurus, and a bottle of Jack Daniels.
_________________________
Imagine your lyrics on the horizon written by a skywriter.
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#835429 - 03/06/09 09:16 PM
Re: Lyrics -- are rarely discussed here...
[Re: rhythmace47]
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vvmv
Planeteer
Registered: 09/06/08
Posts: 12383
Loc: atween
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It’s not like you have someone standing behind you with a stopwatch and a paycheck they’re gonna hand you the minute you finish your last line,
No, it ain't like last time,
When you was working to be the man in the garage rock band over by the state line, back in the summer of '89,
No, it ain't like last time,
And you wasn't sure if you wanted to bring back the shred or if that style was too long dead, so mebbe you should be a Deadhead, to get ahead,
We all heard what you said,
"Writing lyrics doesn’t have to be a frigging homework assignment because when it becomes that,
chances are it is that, and you don't want that,"
No, you don't want that.
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#835509 - 03/07/09 12:55 AM
Re: Lyrics -- are rarely discussed here...
[Re: vvmv]
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kid-surf
Planeteer
Registered: 09/21/99
Posts: 14908
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It's interesting how when we discuss music we mention: theory, structure, form, harmony, counterpoint, meter, measures, etc. But when we discuss the lyric we suddenly become more abstract and dare I say, forgiving. As if it is the least import aspect of our song. Why do you suppose that is...or do you suppose it's something else entirely?
I have to ay that the lyric is not what attracts me to a song, initially, but it's definitely the element that allows me to connect to the artist, or not. It's as if I'm lured by the melody (rhythm etc) but sold on whether or not this tune/artist has any value aside from what is obvious (subtext) by the lyric.
I would say that those songwriters who've had the most to say lyrically, are those that the general public places on the highest pedestal. Which may not correlate to the musician world where "players" may or may not hold that position.
Having said that; written word has proven to hold the same principles as music - structure, form, so on and so forth. So, why work so painstakingly on the notes, but not the message? Otherwise why not create instrumentals if the lyric is arbitrary? Isn't the music a platform for the written word in the form of song?
I dunno...you tell me.
Regardless, what I can say for sure is that it's much easier for me to spot a well crafted lyric today than it was a few years ago. It's as if some are playing bad notes out of time but insisting they aren't -- the implication being that the lyric's function is but for, "to say whatever you feel like saying, after all, this is 'my' song...and well...there's no way to judge its form or function anyway"
If that ideology were true, how could we then judge a film, or book, or joke, or any other form of expression drawn with words.
We treat notes as homework but not the words. Not sure I understand the reasoning behind that. Art has never been thoughtless or easy...not solid art anyway. There's a lot of garbage folks will have us believe is art. Let's be honest.
Perhaps this is just a distinguisher of those who seek to master the craft and those who are content to express themselves. (nothing wrong with either -- but I'm not yet convinced that they are not mutually exclusive)
But you know...I'm sure someone will chime in with a patronizing reason why they are. So I'm all ears.
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#835540 - 03/07/09 02:58 AM
Re: Lyrics -- are rarely discussed here...
[Re: kid-surf]
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Popmann
Loquacious Planeteer
Registered: 05/23/02
Posts: 33081
Loc: Twangville, TN
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So, why work so painstakingly on the notes, but not the message? Otherwise why not create instrumentals if the lyric is arbitrary? Isn't the music a platform for the written word in the form of song?
Well, I think I work fairly painstakingly on the lyrics. If it weren't for that, I'd just have tunes rolling off the assembly line. That said...and to the last point, I don't think of music as a platform for the written word. As to why not instrumental, I've pondered that a lot--since I feel no particular affinity for instrumental music. I think it's about the vocal instrument...that the thing that connects for me. And, I'm not saying write the stupidest garbage lyrics ever--but, a mediocre lyric is fine married to a good piece of music. Sure, technically, I suppose one could scat sing...but, I do value lyrics. It's just an art I'm unclear on it's importance and the actual inner working of what I dig about lyrics I dig.
Case in point. Latest Jonatha Brooke. She took unpublished lyrics from the Woodie Guthrie archive and wrote tunes to them. While slightly less left of center musically that her usual, it's really nice stuff--the band is a bunch of ACES...sounds great...she wrote pretty nice melodies...but, the lyrical poetry from another generation does keep me from really connecting with it like I do her own work. So, obviously, her lyrics are part of what attracts me to her work. Yet, a LOT of them--no idea what they're about. They're pretty images and strings of vowels and consonants that convey something when paired with her voice/melody/music.
Chris Robinson. Two solo records. Dig the HELL out of them. No idea what the guy's talking about. It's poetry. And sometimes absurd stoner poetry at that. Still, there's a tune called "Train Robbers"...kills me, that record. His voice when he's singing:
If theirs one thing I've learned, from this life of crime
When it's all over, split up the money and go your own way
And if you get caught, don’t say nothing, just stay in line
Till your chance comes and you can make your next, getaway
...kills me. Whole lyric here.
It's silly. Still--the commitment in his voice singing that...and the explosion of band after the dramatic pause then "next...getaway"--moving. I don't know why. I can assure you it's not the written words themselves, though. Know what I mean?
Michael McDermott writes some really really fab lyrics--and they DO stand up to just reciting them. More and more, he's been marrying them to folky strummed three chord tunes, though. And his independent productions lack fidelity and and fine studio playing...so, his strong lyrics alone aren't enough.
Jackson Browne is one of my faves in marrying the poetic and the literally honest. One of my favorite examples:
Youre the color of the sky
Reflected in each store-front window pane
Youre the whispering and the sighing
Of my tires in the rain
Youre the hidden cost and the thing thats lost
In everything I do
Yeah and Ill never stop looking for you
In the sunlight and the shadows
And the faces on the avenue
Thats the way love is
Thats the way love is
Thats the way love is
Sky blue and black
But, then...Ms Pop had to point out how completely retarded and immature most of Joss Stone's lyrics are. I just love the music. And by music--I mean the tracks AND her vocal delivery. She delivers them in such a way that I never even noticed she had nothing lyrically...to speak to your assertion, it's as if her "message" is not contained in the written word in any literal sense.
This is kind of a cool discussion. See...because I've studied this a lot. It's my weak point. I like my lyrics...a LOT...but, I don't write a lot of them. They're like painfully constipated little nuggets of gold. I used to write a lot of tunes. When I did, I felt like, in retrospect, I was taking X situation and writing 4 songs about it...yet, I ended up with four mediocre songs-none of which really expressed fully what I was feeling/thinking about situation X. Now, where I would've written 4, I edit...and try to get a 4min tune that says all that I NEED to say about it. So, when I say I like my lyrics-that's why. I'm successfully doing that. Not a lot of filler. Still, I would like to work in more abstract poetic imagery into them. I do think people think if I'm not posting about working on something that I'm not. But, I will remind you, this was a recording forum...and that's really how I think about it still.
Also, I want to make reference to something said in an English teacher's lecture in the Showtime show Dead Like Me on the subject of the power of Shakespearian sonnets AND country music. It was basically that their simplicity resonated, because sometimes the simplest things are the hardest for people to say to one and other...and that was the power of simple cliche. It said things we all wish we could, but often don't. I wish I had a transcript of that lecture--as it really does sum up my thoughts on musical lyrics. That the real "message" is in the music...the right brained emotional message...and that the lyrics mostly serve to set the stage and context for the left brain. The very best of them tend to actually connect the two hemispheres. The music may convey desperation and anger...the lyrics at the least need to tell the left brain why or what you're desperate or angry about. Those best ones, that blend the ernest with poetic go one step further and more directly tie the two hemispheres together.
that's the goal...but, it's a steep one. And one that, honestly, I think has as much to do with the music and vocal delivery as the written words themselves.
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