#951646 - 02/16/10 12:30 AM
Re: Installing an IDE to Flash Media Adapter in a Roland VS-840
[Re: Rainer]
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Cornjerker
Planeteer
Registered: 11/16/04
Posts: 5597
Loc: CornvILLe
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That is a cool idea!
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#961659 - 03/18/10 02:35 PM
Re: Installing an IDE to Flash Media Adapter in a Roland VS-840
[Re: Cornjerker]
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markyboy
Space Cadet
Registered: 03/18/10
Posts: 9
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Hi there,
Thanks to all of the help here I've managed to upgrade via midi to 1.05 however I don't have access to a zip drive. Would it be possible to format the zip disc in the vs-480, physically remove the drive from the 480, temporarily connect it to a PC via IDE cable, copy required files and reconnect it to the 480 for upgrade?
Regards,
Mark.
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#961670 - 03/18/10 03:25 PM
Re: Installing an IDE to Flash Media Adapter in a Roland VS-840
[Re: markyboy]
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Cornjerker
Planeteer
Registered: 11/16/04
Posts: 5597
Loc: CornvILLe
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Markyboy, I have done that several times. In fact, there was a time when several of us were experimenting with our 840's a lot that I left an IDE and power cable dangling out of the chassis of my old PC and had the IDE drive loose in the 840 to make it all easier. I got tired of removing the 19 or so screws on the bottom of the 840. 
You can get the v2.05 upgrade file here:
http://vs840.vjam.net/vs840v205z.zip "ZIP disk based system update file, to version 2.05. Format a ZIP 100 disk in your VS-840. Move the ZIP 100 disk to your PC with ZIP drive, open the ZIP archive and copy the file $SYSPRO2.VS1 to the ZIP 100 disk, to make a system update disk. DO NOT USE A ZIP 250 DISK. YOU WILL DESTROY YOUR VS-840 WITH A "BAD FLASH" ERROR. Detailed instructions are included in the ZipPC.txt file included in the ZIP archive."
There's many other help files, manuals and the Video Owners Manual here if you need them: http://vs840.vjam.net/
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#961689 - 03/18/10 04:11 PM
Re: Installing an IDE to Flash Media Adapter in a Roland VS-840
[Re: Cornjerker]
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markyboy
Space Cadet
Registered: 03/18/10
Posts: 9
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Thanks for that! I bought the SD and CF adaptor and will try to install the reader at the back as well. I'll post back to let you know how I get on. I used http://vs840.vjam.net/ for the midi upgrade files already. Thanks again.
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#961740 - 03/18/10 06:50 PM
Re: Installing an IDE to Flash Media Adapter in a Roland VS-840
[Re: markyboy]
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Cornjerker
Planeteer
Registered: 11/16/04
Posts: 5597
Loc: CornvILLe
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Markyboy,
If you don't already know, the only trouble you might have with that ZIP drive in your PC, would be if you had to change the jumper on the back of the ZIP drive between MASTER, SLAVE or SINGLE ... and you may need to change your PC's BIOS settings if it doesn't AUTO recognize the drive. Remember to put the ZIP drive back to MASTER when you put it back in your VS-840.
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#962562 - 03/21/10 02:25 PM
Re: Installing an IDE to Flash Media Adapter in a Roland VS-840
[Re: Cornjerker]
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markyboy
Space Cadet
Registered: 03/18/10
Posts: 9
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Thanks to help here, I've successfully upgraded.
I connected the existing Zip drive to my PC and transferred the upgrade files.
Only problems were trying to mount the card reader properly and also the IDE cable requiring 40 holes when most modern IDE cables only have 39!
Anyway, thanks again to Rainer and Cornjerker.
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#972299 - 04/18/10 01:11 PM
Re: Installing an IDE to Flash Media Adapter in a Roland VS-840
[Re: Cornjerker]
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leftcoast
Space Cadet
Registered: 03/04/10
Posts: 4
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just to clarify.
i'm abit of a noob here.
i'm going to get either an 840/840ex/880/880ex, but i want to install this mod on whichever one I get because i'm a REAPER user and want to transfer project files later to my computer to work on them in REAPER thanks to the VS plugin.
can you only install an SD reader on the 840/840ex or does this apply to the 880 models too?
can somebody please clarify this for me?
many thanks, louis.
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#972311 - 04/18/10 01:50 PM
Re: Installing an IDE to Flash Media Adapter in a Roland VS-840
[Re: leftcoast]
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Cornjerker
Planeteer
Registered: 11/16/04
Posts: 5597
Loc: CornvILLe
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The PDF document and instructions at the beginning of this thread are for the 840/840EX/840GX only.
Note that I once owned an 880EX, traded one of my 840EX with CF drive to a friend for it. So I tried to install the CF upgrade on the 880, which works, but you need different components - and I no longer remember which adapter I bought. But in brief, the 880 series uses a laptop hard drive, which uses one of those 44 pin mini IDE connectors - so it's a different CF / SD adapter altogether. IIRC, the 880 also had some kind of drive tray/adapter to facilitate drive swapping that made mounting the CF / SD difficult.
I did have a CF adapter working in an 880EX, but because of the mounting problem(s) apparently shorted the adapter to the case and ruined a CF card. So I reinstalled the HD and got rid of the 880EX (I have NO desire to ascend the 880's learning curve) ...
My recommendation to you is, with the IFFY upgrade path of the 840 to EX via software update (they sometimes FAIL to take the FLASH ROM update and cost $150 to fix plus shipping to Roland in L.A.) - that you save your money and buy something new, under warranty and WITHOUT all the damn hassles of getting files off of the 840 series to Reaper ...
Check out the Zoom R16. That's probably what I'd get if I were buying a hardware / SD type recorder platform today.
http://www.buy.com/prod/zoom-r16-multitrack-recorder/q/listingid/46830939/loc/111/211485897.html
http://www.samsontech.com/products/productpage.cfm?prodID=2009
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#972316 - 04/18/10 02:12 PM
Re: Installing an IDE to Flash Media Adapter in a Roland VS-840
[Re: Cornjerker]
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leftcoast
Space Cadet
Registered: 03/04/10
Posts: 4
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do you know anything regarding the zoom r16 sound quality and stuff in comparison to the 840 and 880 units? i used to own an 880. i loved the sound.
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#972329 - 04/18/10 03:15 PM
Re: Installing an IDE to Flash Media Adapter in a Roland VS-840
[Re: leftcoast]
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Cornjerker
Planeteer
Registered: 11/16/04
Posts: 5597
Loc: CornvILLe
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Can't speak to the musical quality ... 840 and 880 use compression. The R16 doesn't. So it would really come down to converters, I guess. 840 has noisy pre's - same with the 880 I guess ... years ago I recall a user here who had a Yahoo group wherein he'd developed hacks for some of the more expensive machines to replace the Opamps with new, lower noise Opamps. Oh yeah, it was this group: http://uk.groups.yahoo.com/group/mod-your-roland-vs/
Read some reviews, maybe compare the specs and in particular the OPAMPS on the input circuits and the compression (lossy / lossless) specs. That Zoom for example, will handle a 32Gb SD card. Can't hardly beat that - and it works as a control surface for your DAW software with seamless USB file transfer.
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#972441 - 04/18/10 08:23 PM
Re: Installing an IDE to Flash Media Adapter in a Roland VS-840
[Re: Cornjerker]
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leftcoast
Space Cadet
Registered: 03/04/10
Posts: 4
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i'm still interested in getting an 840 and modding it to use SD media.
I loved my old 880 so much and my friend is selling their 840 for cheap.
is it better in terms of the mod to get an 840 or 840ex?
i don't see it as a really big hassle transferring files to REAPER.
i have an SD card reader in my computer and the VS plugin for REAPER supposedly makes it a fairly simple process
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#972468 - 04/19/10 12:12 AM
Re: Installing an IDE to Flash Media Adapter in a Roland VS-840
[Re: leftcoast]
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dhart
Planeteer
Registered: 12/19/01
Posts: 569
Loc: albany, ny
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I believe it has to be an EX for the mod to work; you can upgrade the OS to EX version with files from Jack's page though as he says sometimes the upgrade fails and converts the 840 into a well-engineered doorstop. If your friend is selling the non EX 840 really cheap, you don't have much to lose giving it a try. If it doesn't upgrade, buy the zoom. If it does, buy and put in the SD card reader.
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#993347 - 08/13/10 12:24 PM
Re: Installing an IDE to Flash Media Adapter in a Roland VS-840
[Re: dhart]
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RenZ0R
Space Cadet
Registered: 09/01/09
Posts: 1
Loc: UK
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Im very interested in trying this, I have a 840ex that im using to record my band that likes to give me a drive busy error around 5mins into every recording, even on different and new zip discs
Can anyone recommend me a IDE to SD reader thats compatible and purchasable in the UK? ebay has about 9million different versions of readers available from china for 99p which Id buy if I knew which one and I cant find anything compatible on maplin..
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#1028339 - 02/16/11 10:20 PM
Re: Installing an IDE to Flash Media Adapter in a Roland VS-840
[Re: RenZ0R]
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Rainer
Space Cadet
Registered: 02/14/10
Posts: 6
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Why not just order at dealextreme? They ship for free worldwide, are cheap and have fast service. The stuff they sell is the same as that which everyone is selling on Ebay imho :-)
Here's how it looks on my (actually never-used, ahem) VS-840 EX:
 
SD cards can only be used up to 1GB of capacity, regardless if they're actually larger like 2GB (like the card on the pic).
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#1028360 - 02/17/11 01:44 AM
Re: Installing an IDE to Flash Media Adapter in a Roland VS-840
[Re: Rainer]
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uptildawn
Planeteer
Registered: 12/15/01
Posts: 9073
Loc: on land
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What great photos, Rainer!!!
_________________________
uptildawn
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#1050533 - 06/29/11 09:20 AM
Re: Installing an IDE to Flash Media Adapter in a Roland VS-840
[Re: uptildawn]
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Ian_H
Space Cadet
Registered: 10/01/09
Posts: 4
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I'm looking at taking the plunge with this and upgrading my 840EX. I'll be going for the CF reader below because its so cheap, plus the fact that the SD reader is now out of stock!
I'm not sure on power cable adapters or IDE cables though. The cable below is 39 pin which suits the reader, but i've opened up the 840 and there appears to be 40 pins on the board?
If someone can point me in the direction of a power cable (if i need one) off the DX website, that would be great!
Thanks, Ian.
http://www.dealextreme.com/p/cf-to-ide-adapter-711
http://www.dealextreme.com/p/hard-drive-ata-100-ide-ribbon-cable-2-pack-9182
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#1056581 - 07/31/11 11:34 AM
Re: Installing an IDE to Flash Media Adapter in a Roland VS-840
[Re: Ian_H]
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Rainer
Space Cadet
Registered: 02/14/10
Posts: 6
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Hey Ian,
My reply is probably coming in too late - I actually don't use my VS at all and am hardly reading this board - but still:
You actually don't need that ATA cable, there's already one in your VS if I recall correctly. For the powerconnector, you need an adapter cable from the 4 pin "traditional" harddisk power cable to a floppy connector. It all depends what kind of connector the adapter board has: this one ( http://www.dealextreme.com/p/sd-card-to-ide-hard-drive-converter-secure-digital-10889 ) has a large connector, while the one that you linked has one of those floopy drive connectors. If you ever built a PC yourself, you'll probably have some of those lying around in the power supply box or the motherboard.
Hope you got everything up and running in the mean time!
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#1099575 - 01/24/12 07:07 AM
Re: Installing an IDE to Flash Media Adapter in a Roland VS-840
[Re: Rainer]
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Valentin
Space Cadet
Registered: 01/07/12
Posts: 1
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This one also work:
http://www.ebay.com/itm/170715781808
Tested on my Roland VS-840EX
Also SD Card tested and working perfect: Silicon Power 1Gb
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#1115973 - 04/06/12 02:09 PM
Re: Installing an IDE to Flash Media Adapter in a Roland VS-840
[Re: Valentin]
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roberflash
Space Cadet
Registered: 04/06/12
Posts: 6
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I just installed a SD card reader to my 840EX, replacing the ZIP drive.
Works great, 1GB card. First un updating the N.A. the version 2.05 of the 840EX and then tried the SD to IDE reader and 1GB memory, all perfect, then I did a test to record 4 tracks at once, perfect, after playing all 4 tracks recorded and record another 4 at a time , perfect, and finally play 6 tracks and record 2, perfect.
This modification is essential for anyone with a VS 840, is over the noise of the Zip drive, and you can transfer files to and from your computer.
For those who do will I have used these items from DealExtreme:
http://www.dealextreme.com/p/sd-card-to-ide-hard-drive-converter-secure-digital-10889
http://www.dealextreme.com/p/designer-s-sd-memory-card-1gb-42355
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#1115975 - 04/06/12 02:16 PM
Re: Installing an IDE to Flash Media Adapter in a Roland VS-840
[Re: roberflash]
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roberflash
Space Cadet
Registered: 04/06/12
Posts: 6
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And now, I`m waiting for OPA2134 OPAMPS for change the six 4570 Opamps that found in all roland VS equipment for input channels and outputs. This upgrade is a great sound improvement for VS series.
Sorry for my english, I´m spanish.
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#1116592 - 04/09/12 11:35 PM
Re: Installing an IDE to Flash Media Adapter in a Roland VS-840
[Re: Valentin]
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Ricoche
Space Cadet
Registered: 01/13/12
Posts: 8
Loc: Nagano-city, Japan
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Thanks Valentin for this info. I find DealExtreme is a nightmare company and avoid them at all costs. I bought from Ebay instead based on your experience. Thanks!!
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#1120530 - 04/30/12 07:33 PM
Re: Installing an IDE to Flash Media Adapter in a Roland VS-840
[Re: Cornjerker]
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ur2qt2b4got10
Space Cadet
Registered: 04/30/12
Posts: 1
Loc: Edmonton Alberta, Canada
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yo!
I managed to find two Syba IDE cards, SY-IDE2MC-4A, thinking I had scored a great find. I had a friend pick them up in the next province for me and send them out to my house, talk about a long distance hand-over, then I finally re-read the installation. It took me a long time to find the power adapter. I plugged it in and fired her up. It was only then I realized I had the wrong *serial number*! It didn't boot at first, then I rebooted and it starts up. It attempts to read, the adapter flashes a little but it can't find any data. I can't initialize, load or record with it. So close... did I just waste my money or am I missing some crucial step? Any thoughts would be appreciated.
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#1152475 - 09/03/12 09:27 PM
Re: Installing an IDE to Flash Media Adapter in a Roland VS-840
[Re: ur2qt2b4got10]
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boombapp28
Space Cadet
Registered: 09/03/12
Posts: 11
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What's up, guys? Want to thank you for all the hard work and trouble shooting prowess regarding this upgrade. I have the 840 and hope to modernize it with the EX upgrade and CF drive. That being said, will this SATA drive operate in the VS? I know the ADIDECFB from Addonics will work and this drive seems to be a newer version that allows for hot swapping. Would I be better off with the original ADIDECFB drive? Thanks again!
Here is the drive information: http://www.addonics.com/products/adsacf.php
And just to be sure, I'm currently running O.S. 1.02. I would need to upgrade to 1.05 via Zip disk and then to 2.05 via Zip again, correct?
Edited by boombapp28 (09/03/12 09:30 PM)
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#1152498 - 09/03/12 10:36 PM
Re: Installing an IDE to Flash Media Adapter in a Roland VS-840
[Re: boombapp28]
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uptildawn
Planeteer
Registered: 12/15/01
Posts: 9073
Loc: on land
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The VS units are not designed to work with SATA hard drives, as far as I know. I don't see what good a SATA to CF adapter card would do you for this mod. Maybe I'm mistaken and you can ignore my comments... hope so, really.
The VS is also not designed for hot swapping, so that feature does you no good and is wasted money, if it costs more than what's already being used.
_________________________
uptildawn
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#1152540 - 09/04/12 01:00 AM
Re: Installing an IDE to Flash Media Adapter in a Roland VS-840
[Re: uptildawn]
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boombapp28
Space Cadet
Registered: 09/03/12
Posts: 11
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Thanks, Uptildawn. Now I know exactly which one to buy. I just wanted to be sure. Either way, 512 to 1gb gives me a lot to work with and I wouldn't need to remove the card unless I was transferring files.
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#1152555 - 09/04/12 01:48 AM
Re: Installing an IDE to Flash Media Adapter in a Roland VS-840
[Re: boombapp28]
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boombapp28
Space Cadet
Registered: 09/03/12
Posts: 11
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Clarifying that I'm a n00b and would like some reassurance. Since I'm upgrading the O.S. via 100mb Zip Disk, do I have to upgrade the 840 to 1.05 first prior to 2.05? I'm currently running 1.02.
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#1152559 - 09/04/12 02:14 AM
Re: Installing an IDE to Flash Media Adapter in a Roland VS-840
[Re: boombapp28]
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uptildawn
Planeteer
Registered: 12/15/01
Posts: 9073
Loc: on land
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To give a reply to your update question... I don't believe you need to do the update in steps (since I've never had to with the two units I have used), but since I don't use the 840 myself, I can't be positive.
Maybe someone else will post a definitive reply before long.
Now, if you do have the current version on a disk, you should be able to easily try the update and reload your old version (or another in between if you have one) to overwrite, if needed. At least you can on all the ones I have updated (at least three models).
_________________________
uptildawn
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#1152563 - 09/04/12 02:34 AM
Re: Installing an IDE to Flash Media Adapter in a Roland VS-840
[Re: uptildawn]
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boombapp28
Space Cadet
Registered: 09/03/12
Posts: 11
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Thanks again for your help, Uptildawn. I do appreciate the info.
I just nabbed a USB powered 100mb Zip Disk drive from eBay. I will update with the upgrade status in a week or so.
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#1152695 - 09/04/12 03:35 PM
Re: Installing an IDE to Flash Media Adapter in a Roland VS-840
[Re: boombapp28]
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boombapp28
Space Cadet
Registered: 09/03/12
Posts: 11
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I found a Kingmax 512Mb CF card on eBay. The part number matches up all except for the "TB" prefix. I wish I could attach a jpeg of the card so that a better look can be had.
Edited by boombapp28 (09/04/12 03:36 PM)
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#1152783 - 09/04/12 07:37 PM
Re: Installing an IDE to Flash Media Adapter in a Roland VS-840
[Re: boombapp28]
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uptildawn
Planeteer
Registered: 12/15/01
Posts: 9073
Loc: on land
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Why would you want anything less than the 1GB card?
Also, unless you're willing to go through the potential hassle of buying cards that don't work and then have to figure out what to do with the waste, why not stick with known and tested cards?
Of course, it's not a bad thing for people to try whatever they have available and when proven good, post the card description for others to benefit in the future.
Sorry........ keep forgetting we're talking an 840 here.
I don't recall what you max partition size and number is.... is 512MB as large as you can go in an 840?
Edited by uptildawn (09/04/12 07:39 PM)
_________________________
uptildawn
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#1152951 - 09/05/12 02:46 AM
Re: Installing an IDE to Flash Media Adapter in a Roland VS-840
[Re: uptildawn]
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boombapp28
Space Cadet
Registered: 09/03/12
Posts: 11
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The most memory the VS-840 with the EX upgrade will read is 1gb. It will partition everything else. I've found the SD drive but no compatible cards from the list. I've found the CF drive also but the card I mentioned is the closest thing I've found that is compatible.
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#1153019 - 09/05/12 12:48 PM
Re: Installing an IDE to Flash Media Adapter in a Roland VS-840
[Re: boombapp28]
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uptildawn
Planeteer
Registered: 12/15/01
Posts: 9073
Loc: on land
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Since the 840 line did not come with a drive that could use anything more than 250MB zip disks and I haven't seen what the SD/CF conversion does for the 840 line, I'm at a disadvantage to understand precisely what you've told me about capacity.
Could you point me to where you've found information about maximum drive and partition sizes for the 840 line?
I re-scanned the entire thread here and see that there is an understanding that the SD/CF card maximum size must be restricted to 1GB. From what I can tell, the apparent problem with larger drives has to do more with Windows not wanting to read multiple partitions, than with the 840 itself. Someone clarify this for me if I am wrong, please.
As far as compatible SD cards, I found that Transcend 2GB SDHC cards work very well for my 880 and 1680, like this one: http://www.amazon.com/Transcend-Flash-Memory-Card-TS2GSDC/dp/B000FGNM6I/ref=pd_cp_e_1
I'm not sure that this means that their 1GB SD card will work as well, and/or for the 840. At least it's something to consider, since it appears (from re-reading this thread) that SD cards are favored because of their general availability and low cost, compared to CF cards.
I also bought a SD-to-CF adapter a while back that works very nicely in the CF-to-IDE drive.
_________________________
uptildawn
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#1153306 - 09/06/12 12:10 AM
Re: Installing an IDE to Flash Media Adapter in a Roland VS-840
[Re: uptildawn]
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boombapp28
Space Cadet
Registered: 09/03/12
Posts: 11
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I meant to say that Windows doesn't read the multiple partitions. I am going with the SD drive as it is relatively cheaper to install.
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#1153367 - 09/06/12 04:20 AM
Re: Installing an IDE to Flash Media Adapter in a Roland VS-840
[Re: boombapp28]
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Cornjerker
Planeteer
Registered: 11/16/04
Posts: 5597
Loc: CornvILLe
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840EX/CF/SD will not use multiple partitions - it will use the 1st partition by default, though in my experience, sometimes it would not recognize a VS840EX/CF/SD formatted flash media card and would prompt to reformat an already formatted card.
Windows will not read a partitioned flash media card - at least XP would not. It would prompt to format the card, which the 840 had parceled up into 1g partitions and attempt to format, but would prompt to reformat the card every time inserted. The only way I was ever able to get a 2gb and larger flash media card, partitioned and formatted to 1g partition(s) by the 840, restored to a 2gb partition, was to cycle the SD card through my Palm Tungsten E device which would blow away the 1g partitions and restore a single 2g (or larger) partition and format same.
For me, the whole reason to go with a CF or SD card, aside from silence and capacity, was the ability to transfer the card to the PC to convert the 840 files to WAV and then use a software proggie like Audacity, Audition, Reaper, et al, to edit, mix and master.
If not moving the CF or SD card to the PC, you can use most any size CF or SD card in your converted 840EX machine - do all your editing, mixing and mastering on your 840EX and master your song out the S/PDIF or TOSLINK outputs to a PC, or to a standalone CDR machine.
Those old 512mb / 1g cards are hard to come by any more. Compatible 1g CF cards were rare as hens teeth.
Best either to get a USB interface for your PC and use Audacity or Reaper, or if you got your heart fixed on a standalone multitrack recorder, a Zoom R16 or the like.
The 840 upgraded via software flash to EX, then retrofitted with CF / SD reader with ever more rare 512m / 1g flash media cards, is just asking for heartache - should you wind up with a bad flash or have to purchase a couple different readers and cards to find a working combo.
Yeah, that $60 price for a VS840 on eBay is attractive, but by the time you add the CF/SD reader, longer IDE and power cables, media and a reader for your PC, your into it for $120, assuming it works the first time. Better in my opinion to get a $100 USB interface for your PC and record in WAV.
Remember, the VS840 records in compressed / lossy format. Mix down a couple times and you can darn sure hear it. Best to record to WAV directly.
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#1154772 - 09/11/12 04:25 AM
Re: Installing an IDE to Flash Media Adapter in a Roland VS-840
[Re: Cornjerker]
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boombapp28
Space Cadet
Registered: 09/03/12
Posts: 11
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I would love to buy an R-16 but money is an issue. I already have the VS-840 and I am so accustomed to using it. Not to mention the $180 I spent for it six years ago.
I've already bought a second hand 100mb usb powered zip disk drive. There is a seller on eBay who has a modded VS-840 w/ 512 mb CF drive upgrade and EX upgrade and he pretty much attributed his success with the mod to this very group and thread so I'm going by his trial and error experience and trying to narrow down the best solution.
I want to mod it to use in tandem with BR to Wav, Reaper and the VS software for Reaper. According to this thread, OPAMPS can be replaced that will improve the sound on the 840, correct me if I'm wrong.
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