posted 11-16-2000 04:58 AM         

Slow

posted 11-17-2000 02:23 PM            

Why don't you just use your finger like everyone else?

posted 12-21-2000 09:20 AM            

it's my understanding that hifi is hifi where vhs tape is concerned- in other words, the grocery cheapie should work as well (for audio purposes) as a $500 sony.

posted 12-24-2000 11:33 PM            

I too thought maybe they were unloading some of the old dolby stereo VCRs, but I investigated and it actually was VHS HiFi. Amazing!!! Kind of made me wonder if the recordable DVD's are getting ready to pick up steam.

Merry Christmas,

posted 12-26-2000 10:18 AM            

I also didn't notice much of any positive tape-saturation effects on the beta either. When you hit it too hard it simply distorted, and it wasn't a very pleasant distortion, either. Now I'm not sure if it was the preamp distorting before the tape got to saturation or what, but regardless, running the level too hot ruined more than a few mixes. Personally, I don't think the VCRs saturate in the same pleasant manner as standard analog audio. Maybe it's the diagonal record path that makes the difference. I don't know. But I DID have one of the old AKAI 12 track analog machines that used a VCR type tape, but recorded in a linear fashion. And that machine sounded extremely fat and sweet when you slammed it. Unlike the beta.

posted 12-27-2000 04:14 PM            

Now remember, the tape speed required to provide enough bandwidth for video is outrageously high if applied to audio. Also, the SN/R is amazing for an analog device, usually greater than 90dB.

So you're essentially using a video media format for audio. That's why the suckers sound so good!

posted 12-28-2000 11:43 AM         

It's not the signal path, it is the type of signal. Analog tape saturates and the resultant distortion, compression-like with even-order harmonics and predictable EQ, etc., is (done right) musical. Digital hits a data saturation point where instead of the "00"'s and "01"'s which comprise the musical data, you get gobbedly-gook, which sounds unmusical. Unless you are Trent Reznor.

The moral is: Don't run your digital hot, 'cause musical it ain't. Or sompin'.

posted 08-19-2001 06:37 PM         

Are you guys still doing this (hi-fi VCR recording)?

I recently ran all 8's out of my 880 V-Xpanded onto a regular stereo casette from my stereo (as a newbie experiment) and got basically the exact same sound as I was listening to before I sent it over (without bouncing to stereo pair), with the exception of some terrible recorded hiss from the casette deck.

My question here is: Can I run all 8 tracks (via my master outs) to my hi-fi VCR and then back in to my 880 V-Xpanded in stereo before burning to CD without the awful hiss? Or is it absolutely necessary for me to mix down everything to stereo pair first?

I'm thinking of utilizing the hi-fi stereo VCR...especially if it warms it up like you guys say, and if it can save me time.

Thanks,

posted 08-19-2001 10:04 PM            

Good luck and happy experimenting.

Rick

------------------
We don't need no stinkin manuals......

posted 08-20-2001 05:08 AM         

I do think I'll give it a try...

posted 08-21-2001 10:33 AM            

if you have infinite patience, you could run all 8 tracks, two at a time, to and from the deck- THEN time-shift them into sync! HA! yeah.... that's a pipe dream...

there are two main uses i've found for the hifi vcr thing-

number 1)

drum tracks! remember how good that four-track cassette made that drum kit sound? and it was recorded with one 57 kinda aimed at it? well, this get's the cool saturated sound, but without the flutter/hiss/ect...

here's my setup:

four piece rogers kit
hihat, ride, two crash

421 on kick, 57 on snare, 58's on rack and floor tom, at3525 on hihat, superlux tube condensor in omni mode overhead.

these six mics are plugged into a mackie 1402, and a considerable amount of time is spent setting the mix.

a click track with scratch guitar and vocal is mixed into the headphone send from the mackie, so the drummer has something to follow. usually the click/guitar/vocal is recorded on the vs, with a drum machine providing the 'click'- depending on the mood of the tune, it could be a cowbell, tight hat 'chick', ect..

the resulting (stereo) drum track comes out really great! since there's no dolby® dbx® or hiss-creating crap®, the track is nice and fat, without digital grit, but with heaping amounts of tape saturation (assuming you run the levels hot enough).

since the next step is going straight to the vs, there's no generation loss- this is really the most crucial point, as if you run it into the vs too hot you'll get digital clipping, not hot enough, you'll get that lovely roland preamp hiss... it may take two or three tries to get the transfer perfect (that's what the undo button is for!).

you can insert some compression and eq at this point- i use the mtk, as it has all the tone shaping tools in one fx.

at this point, you have a great-sounding drum track ready for building on!

number 2)

mastering! taking the stereo out from the vs, into the hifi vcr, can give the mix an honest-to-god tape sound, without having to resort to 'tube emulating' or 'analogue-like' software tricks.

i shoot for the best possible mix on the vs- that's a given- that 'mtk' suite is really fantastic! to my ears it's as good as the 'waves' L1, which i have on my computer. i also have the 't-raxx' 2.0 mastering app, and the mtk is just as good as it, too.

anyway, once the final mix is on the vcr, just send it back to a new song on the vs, or into your computer- as long as it's straight back to digital it doesn't matter. ideally you want to come back in 24bit/48k- but even on my 16 bit 880ex it sound excellent.

next stop, cd burner, then hollywood®!

in my experience, guitars and basses, as well as keys (no experience with real horns and strings, so i can't say there), don't really benefit from the time and trouble the vcr thing takes.

drums and vocals are the two biggies- chorus/harmony vocals especially sound awesome. get you backup singers standing around one mic 'temptations style' to see what i mean.

posted 08-21-2001 11:04 AM            

Sooop

posted 08-21-2001 02:33 PM         

Good info. Unfortunately I don't have MTK mastering on my 880 VXpanded.

What do you think the VCR would do for programmed sounds (ie., drum machine)?

posted 08-22-2001 06:18 AM            

i can't see the drum machine benefitting from the time and troble it would take to do the technique- really good ones, like the alesis d4/dm5/pro have samples recorded on tape to begin with, and the lower-end units, the boss dr-550/660, zoom 123, ect, sound like the samples were recorded well, but then processed heavily (to fit the small rom), so they'd still sound machine-like.