#17893 - 07/02/07 09:29 PM
Re: Song Vault: Resource Thread for 1680/1880/1824 Data Backup (CD + SCSI HD)
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uptildawn
Planeteer
Registered: 12/15/01
Posts: 9073
Loc: on land
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Are you speaking of a scsi cd burner that you currently use to create data backups on the VS? There are very few of those which will actually burn and recover VS data. I have personally found it helpful to have one even though they are slow as hardened lava.
The pc and dvd/cd burner combined with VS Wave Export, CD2Roland, Reaper, VirDis, etc. will allow you to archive .wav files of your VS projects... and in much greater quantity per disc on a dvd-r because of its greater capacity (of course). But, not all of these utilities will let you store VS-ready data archives, which is an important consideration if you feel the need and/or plan on reopening them in the VS recorder at some future date.
If you want the flexibility to move your VS song data back and forth from the recorder to the pc/archive disc, then there's really only one combo that I can see working the best for your money. Even though it probably costs the most, I think the best investment is this combo, in order from the VS to the pc:
1- VS recorder
2- VirDis program with special scsi card for your pc (required for VirDis)the expensive part, but THE most important part
3- dvd/cd burner for the pc
This combo will let you archive, copy, move, transfer, edit, play, record on the pc and VS almost as if the pc were an external hard drive for the VS. Plus your ability to archive large amounts of data and the speed by which you can burn discs, audio or data, make this an extremely nice setup. I haven't seen an update on VirDis in a while, but the developer has some great plans for the future of the program.
___________________________________
Then there are these additional parts of the puzzle which can make the process very flexible:
1- (optional) at least one extra internal drive, preferably in the range of 12-20 gig.
2- (optional, but helpful) Roland (qualified) cd burner
3- (optional even with the original 2 gig hard drive... although a large internal drive is really much nicer) a decent capacity external scsi drive with the correct adapters (there are numerous pin configs for scsi unfortunately), or external pc IDE drive in a scsi case with the correct adapters
4- VS Wave Export, CD2Roland, Reaper w/VS plug-in all free except Reaper which is cost minimal
Notice that with VirDis it isn't really even necessary to have a large internal hard drive, an external scsi hard drive, an external scsi cd burner, or anything else between the VS and VirDis since the program can access the internal VS drive directly.
You might want to consider how much money you might spend on everything you have considered getting to make this a functional venture between the VS and the pc... Then weigh that potential cost against that of VirDis, combined with your existing equipment and see if it doesn't make sense.
Of course, that doesn't include your wanting to get VSpro, which is a whole different part of what you want to do... having little to do with moving VS data between the recorder and the pc.
VSpro is how you intend to make the computer control the VS and/or combination of VS'
DanT
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uptildawn
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#17894 - 07/02/07 10:24 PM
Re: Song Vault: Resource Thread for 1680/1880/1824 Data Backup (CD + SCSI HD)
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danmanisa
Planeteer
Registered: 06/30/05
Posts: 59
Loc: Melbourne, Australia
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DanT, How much of a legend are you?! I mean, to reply with such detail is really something I strongly appreciated. i hope your advice also helps others too.
After trying to digest your advice, my head exploded. I picked up the bits i could and thought "might try this again tomorrow!" I have been reading to much for one night, and once i have re-read it again, I might be able to begin thinking about what i will do.
Still very confused, as none of the options rally sound that simple. At this stage, i think I am leaning towards getting vs pro to help edit/mix. In terms of hard disc space, increasing the internal one to the 20 gig seems easiest and cheapest. Burning my cds now seems the next step. Can i just get one of the cd/dvd burners approved on this forum, and hook that up to the vs1680, or does it have to go through the pc and all that other gear you mentioned?
I know you are probably reading this going "does he not get this yet?!" but I am finding this whole world outside of the immediate 1680 really difficult to adjust to, and all assistance here helps greatly!
Cheers
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#17895 - 07/03/07 08:00 PM
Re: Song Vault: Resource Thread for 1680/1880/1824 Data Backup (CD + SCSI HD)
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uptildawn
Planeteer
Registered: 12/15/01
Posts: 9073
Loc: on land
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Keep as much of it inside the direct VS world for now if needed. You can do most of what you want without getting too involved. In fact, VSpro is a level of complexity added to the VS that isn't necessarily needed if you don't mind working inside of the 3x4 window they give you. I had been perfectly happy learning how to do detailed editing and mixing completely within the VS for the first five years that I owned the 1680 and for a year before that with the (horribly thought out window of the ) 880.
The 20Gig hard drive will serve you well. Just watch out for what you get. I've heard that there are some shifty dealings going on with these drives on ebay..... some are good, some are not. Ask around and be thoughtful of what and where you buy.
You can use cd drives recommended here for general audio burning hooked up to the normal digital or analog outputs of the VS with ease.
BUT,
The only cd drives that will allow BOTH audio AND data creation on the VS are those with the Roland brand attached, basically three... The data archiving is important to me so I put up with the limitations...... It was far worse when they first came out at $675US for a 2x write/8x read drive and we had no choice at all.
Any external drives; cd, zip, or hard drive for the VS HAVE to be SCSI. DVD only comes into play when used with the pc.
_________________________________
Upgrading the internal drive to 20 gigs and getting a cd burner can keep you within the confines of the VS while you learn more and become more informed about what will work best for your specific needs.
If you're not familiar with pc recording/editing/mixing software or even using the pc for audio in a basic sense, then it might suite you to wade into the pc world slowly, meanwhile learning everything there is to know about working the VS to its limits.
That would be the simple solution.
DanT
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uptildawn
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#17896 - 07/03/07 09:47 PM
Re: Song Vault: Resource Thread for 1680/1880/1824 Data Backup (CD + SCSI HD)
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danmanisa
Planeteer
Registered: 06/30/05
Posts: 59
Loc: Melbourne, Australia
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Thanks again DanT,
I think you have put it all pretty much how i need to go about it. the way i see it, the 20gig internal HD upgrade should be cheap and easy to do, and would obviously save me from burning as much as I have in the past anyway.
I have a friend who works with computers, so i should be able to get a cheap and good 20gig hard drive (hopefully!)
Uptil, do you know where to get the roland burners? I checked ebay, but they are all american and I am in (will be in) Australia. I assume other than the socket adapter, there would be no difference.
Perhaps i should get a roland burner for Data and audio, and another cheaper one for audio burns only as it will save my roland burner extra work... I hear a few people around here have several drives.
One more thing. As i said, my friend with computers could possibly (hopefully) get me what i need for the IDE gard drive, Scsi casing and adapters. Is there a 20gig limit on this too?
Cos if not, I could get a huge drive for that and rarely burn data again!
Thanks again for all of your help, and thanks for not getting too frustrated with me...yet! Despite my apparent lack of progress, I do feel as i if i am getting somewhere, slowly but surely!
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#17897 - 07/04/07 04:43 AM
Re: Song Vault: Resource Thread for 1680/1880/1824 Data Backup (CD + SCSI HD)
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uptildawn
Planeteer
Registered: 12/15/01
Posts: 9073
Loc: on land
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Originally posted by danmanisa:
Thanks again DanT,
Uptil, do you know where to get the roland burners? I checked ebay, but they are all american and I am in (will be in) Australia. I assume other than the socket adapter, there would be no difference.
Perhaps i should get a roland burner for Data and audio, and another cheaper one for audio burns only as it will save my roland burner extra work... I hear a few people around here have several drives.
One more thing. As i said, my friend with computers could possibly (hopefully) get me what i need for the IDE gard drive, Scsi casing and adapters. Is there a 20gig limit on this too?
Cos if not, I could get a huge drive for that and rarely burn data again!
Any drive you want the Roland to access must be compatable with the Roland... that means it must be formatted by the Roland, which means 16gig limit (8 partitions that are 2 gigs each).
I have no clue lately where you would find the burners... somebody here must know where and WHICH burners will do both data and audio.
Another thing you might check into is the "Song Vault" website which advertises here with a banner ad.
DanT
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uptildawn
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#17898 - 07/24/07 03:18 AM
Re: Song Vault: Resource Thread for 1680/1880/1824 Data Backup (CD + SCSI HD)
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wheels
Planeteer
Registered: 04/27/99
Posts: 1529
Loc: ma.
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I know this is off topic but I haven't been on here in years and just wanted to say hi to Flametop Fred. I don't know if you remember me or not Fred, I was on here when Bob Eliot and Al/Father Time were kickin' around. Hope you're doing well!
wheels
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#701796 - 05/14/08 02:32 AM
Re: Song Vault: Resource Thread for 1680/1880/1824 Data Backup (CD + SCSI HD)
[Re: danmanisa]
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WinyardPro
Planeteer
Registered: 08/28/02
Posts: 3947
Loc: Great Southern Land.
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#701805 - 05/14/08 02:47 AM
Re: Song Vault: Resource Thread for 1680/1880/1824 Data Backup (CD + SCSI HD)
[Re: danmanisa]
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WinyardPro
Planeteer
Registered: 08/28/02
Posts: 3947
Loc: Great Southern Land.
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#701848 - 05/14/08 04:25 AM
Re: Song Vault: Resource Thread for 1680/1880/1824 Data Backup (CD + SCSI HD)
[Re: WinyardPro]
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uptildawn
Planeteer
Registered: 12/15/01
Posts: 9073
Loc: on land
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Isn't 300 rather high for an ebay sale?
DanT
Just noticed that VirDis isn't a sponser of the new forum..... wonder why?
Edited by uptildawn (05/14/08 04:27 AM)
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uptildawn
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#701861 - 05/14/08 05:58 AM
Re: Song Vault: Resource Thread for 1680/1880/1824 Data Backup (CD + SCSI HD)
[Re: uptildawn]
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WinyardPro
Planeteer
Registered: 08/28/02
Posts: 3947
Loc: Great Southern Land.
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Just the other day Bill Casey (VirDIS developer) said he’s been trying to sponsor for a while but nobody is returning his calls or emails??? So your guess is as good as mine…
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#701986 - 05/14/08 03:56 PM
Re: Song Vault: Resource Thread for 1680/1880/1824 Data Backup (CD + SCSI HD)
[Re: WinyardPro]
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uptildawn
Planeteer
Registered: 12/15/01
Posts: 9073
Loc: on land
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Just got an email from him today explaining that the price is indeed at 299 now and that they are selling on ebay.
I haven't checked out the new version yet... still waiting to receive it... but I've always liked what Bill has done to help the VS community stay alive.
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uptildawn
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#702314 - 05/15/08 07:15 AM
Re: Song Vault: Resource Thread for 1680/1880/1824 Data Backup (CD + SCSI HD)
[Re: uptildawn]
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WinyardPro
Planeteer
Registered: 08/28/02
Posts: 3947
Loc: Great Southern Land.
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uptildawn - like the user name! :-)
Are you aware of the new features? CD Mastering etc...
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#702363 - 05/15/08 02:02 PM
Re: Song Vault: Resource Thread for 1680/1880/1824 Data Backup (CD + SCSI HD)
[Re: WinyardPro]
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uptildawn
Planeteer
Registered: 12/15/01
Posts: 9073
Loc: on land
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As I said.... I haven't gotten the new version to check out yet... so no, haven't tried the new features.
I have known that Bill was working on lots of ideas, including cd burning directly from the program since getting VirDis a couple years ago.
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uptildawn
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#703146 - 05/17/08 04:10 AM
Re: Song Vault: Resource Thread for 1680/1880/1824 Data Backup (CD + SCSI HD)
[Re: uptildawn]
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WinyardPro
Planeteer
Registered: 08/28/02
Posts: 3947
Loc: Great Southern Land.
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As I said.... I haven't gotten the new version to check out yet... so no, haven't tried the new features.
I have known that Bill was working on lots of ideas, including cd burning directly from the program since getting VirDis a couple years ago.
Yeah, with the CD Burning stuff Bill has been able to allow creation of a .BIN and Cue file that can remain on your HDD until required.
Whenever a Master CD is required you just burn it from your HDD to your CD or DVD Burner all within the PC.
I'm trying to remember if a VS1680 has a CD Capture/CD Import function? Anyway, that's a feature also.
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#703450 - 05/18/08 05:45 AM
Re: Song Vault: Resource Thread for 1680/1880/1824 Data Backup (CD + SCSI HD)
[Re: uptildawn]
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WinyardPro
Planeteer
Registered: 08/28/02
Posts: 3947
Loc: Great Southern Land.
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Nope, no cd capture, .wav export or import, no nothin'....... but hey, you can play a cd in the roland burner at super slow, sluggish performance speeds.... what more could a guy want?.... It can do cd-r backup and recover.... that's about it.... oh, and write audio cds slower than it takes to write the songs, record them and sell 'em at a show. 
In that case VirDIS will allow the Mastering to the PC HDD and Play back via the CD Player function and Backup of course.
And you can convert tracks directly into .wav using the VS Wave Export software.
But you still get DVD Backup if you have a DVD Burner. 4.7GB per DVD-R isn’t too bad.
Direct recording too!
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#925232 - 11/29/09 03:17 PM
Re: Song Vault: Resource Thread for 1680/1880/1824 Data Backup (CD + SCSI HD)
[Re: danmanisa]
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Fred_Flintstone
Space Cadet
Registered: 09/24/08
Posts: 14
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It seems that all I ever see is "PC" and never a mention of storing/retrieving data with a MacBook. I have no "PC"... only a Mac.
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#925398 - 11/30/09 03:38 AM
Re: Song Vault: Resource Thread for 1680/1880/1824 Data Backup (CD + SCSI HD)
[Re: Fred_Flintstone]
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uptildawn
Planeteer
Registered: 12/15/01
Posts: 9073
Loc: on land
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These utilities don't work on macs to my knowledge.
I see you posted another question in a new thread, too... probably a good thing, although I don't know that there's an answer to your question. I don't use a mac, myself.
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uptildawn
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#939716 - 01/12/10 10:52 AM
Re: Song Vault: Resource Thread for 1680/1880/1824 Data Backup (CD + SCSI HD)
[Re: Fred_Flintstone]
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WinyardPro
Planeteer
Registered: 08/28/02
Posts: 3947
Loc: Great Southern Land.
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VirDIS will be available in a Ethernet version some time this year and this will work on Mac, PC and Linux.
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#982034 - 05/30/10 06:38 PM
Re: Song Vault: Resource Thread for 1680/1880/1824 Data Backup (CD + SCSI HD)
[Re: danmanisa]
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darthfader
Planeteer
Registered: 05/26/10
Posts: 32
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good day everyone!
i just tried to backup my main harddisc from my recorder with the windows aplication!
the aplication is simple to use,but when i go to drive analysis it starts and then it brakes up.
does anyone know a better way or a more save way to backup the harddisc files.
the recorder doesnot recognize one of two partitions.if i open the folder on my pc anything is there,i just need something to read and convert the data.
the problem is the app is givingg up to early need something that converts all it could convert without holding on errors!
it starts to read(vs wave export,partition analysis)
finds alot of songs and stops with the failor:
"failed to read directory entries" 424: object required
when i try to exportt these files this happens:
no project selected(partition is selected)
the most recordings are lv2 files and are not supported by the app!
what can i do is there something else another app?
would be very thankfull for some help
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#995420 - 08/26/10 08:17 AM
Re: Song Vault: Resource Thread for 1680/1880/1824 Data Backup (CD + SCSI HD)
[Re: darthfader]
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WinyardPro
Planeteer
Registered: 08/28/02
Posts: 3947
Loc: Great Southern Land.
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This also applies to the Roland VS1680 etc...
Great news for Roland CDR Burner replacement!
Update!
There you go... Notice in this screen shot how the VirDIS GUI is showing a project recover: Drive (D:) "Multi-disc set 3 of 3"?
This is one project spanning over THREE CD-R's. This is the VS2480 taking a VS2480 project back-up from the PC CD/DVD Burner via VirDIS to the VS2480's Internal HDD.
After each disc #1, #2, #3 the VS2480 asks for each disc and the PC CD/DVD Burner draw/tray will open and the next disc is inserted just like a VS2480 internal burner or external Roland CDRII/III burner.
More later.
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#1065216 - 09/06/11 05:32 PM
Re: Song Vault: Resource Thread for 1680/1880/1824 Data Backup (CD + SCSI HD)
[Re: danmanisa]
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chuychayote
Space Cadet
Registered: 09/10/07
Posts: 1
Loc: irving, tx
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Hello all, I have a QPS-525 CD Rack for sale on Ebay if anyone is interested. We used it with a VS 1880, but I'm sure it would work on other models. You can check it out at:
http://www.ebay.com/itm/330610674574?ssPageName=STRK:MESELX:IT&_trksid=p3984.m1555.l2649
Comes with the 50-25 pin cable, power cable, an 18gb HD in a case, and an extra EMPTY HD case you can get a drive for to double your storage. I ordered the HD swappable cases straight from roland, so chances are they have more and you could add MANY SCSI drives. Thanks and email me here, or better yet on ebay, if you have any questions.
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#1076062 - 10/26/11 10:16 PM
Re: Song Vault: Resource Thread for 1680/1880/1824 Data Backup (CD + SCSI HD)
[Re: uptildawn]
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DEMONMASTER62
Planeteer
Registered: 09/30/11
Posts: 3637
Loc: Central Florida
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those caddies were screwey. paid close to 600 bucks for one at sam ash, back in the early days. crashed in less than 2 months. Right after the return time ran out, of course. sets out on my patio with other junk, to remind me to make sure I get extended warranties from then on.
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#1076142 - 10/27/11 03:48 AM
Re: Song Vault: Resource Thread for 1680/1880/1824 Data Backup (CD + SCSI HD)
[Re: DEMONMASTER62]
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uptildawn
Planeteer
Registered: 12/15/01
Posts: 9073
Loc: on land
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Ouch! That's why I never got one back when I first got the Rack.
Ouch on the extended warranties too! I think they're a rip most of the time..... maybe not for a hard drive...
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uptildawn
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#1114091 - 03/28/12 02:36 AM
Re: Song Vault: Resource Thread for 1680/1880/1824 Data Backup (CD + SCSI HD)
[Re: uptildawn]
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Nsureit
Planeteer
Registered: 02/21/12
Posts: 30
Loc: TX
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Well, I successfully backed up 10 songs from my VS-1680 using my "new" old Plextor PX-W4012S, so it can be added to the list. Did it at 4x speed (760Kbps) with Verify=Off.
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#1114133 - 03/28/12 05:34 AM
Re: Song Vault: Resource Thread for 1680/1880/1824 Data Backup (CD + SCSI HD)
[Re: Nsureit]
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uptildawn
Planeteer
Registered: 12/15/01
Posts: 9073
Loc: on land
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Again...... great to know!
Double-check that you can re-load them to the VS.
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uptildawn
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#1114866 - 03/31/12 09:45 PM
Re: Song Vault: Resource Thread for 1680/1880/1824 Data Backup (CD + SCSI HD)
[Re: uptildawn]
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Nsureit
Planeteer
Registered: 02/21/12
Posts: 30
Loc: TX
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I successfully performed a recovery of a single backed up song, and multiple backups.
Did it with the Plextor PX-W4012S as pictured above.
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#1121227 - 05/03/12 07:23 PM
Re: Song Vault: Resource Thread for 1680/1880/1824 Data Backup (CD + SCSI HD)
[Re: Nsureit]
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FlametopFred
FlametopFred
Planeteer
Registered: 06/03/99
Posts: 8511
Loc: at the wave ranch dressing
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nice
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#1224005 - 06/16/13 11:57 PM
Re: Song Vault: Resource Thread for 1680/1880/1824 Data Backup (CD + SCSI HD)
[Re: danmanisa]
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Virtual_Minstrel
Space Cadet
Registered: 11/28/06
Posts: 27
Loc: new zealand
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It occurs to me that with a MIDI card on the PC, a sync can be done between the VS DAW and the PC using MIDI Clock or MTC, and a digital cable connected to the SP/Dif output, with a Roland EDIROL SP/Dif /USB converter. A lengthy process, but stereo pairs can be transferred across to the pc in real time, and simply recorded into your favourite pc DAW.
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VS-880 ... ten yrs & beyond ... still going strong.
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#1224015 - 06/17/13 12:56 AM
Re: Song Vault: Resource Thread for 1680/1880/1824 Data Backup (CD + SCSI HD)
[Re: Virtual_Minstrel]
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uptildawn
Planeteer
Registered: 12/15/01
Posts: 9073
Loc: on land
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It occurs to me that with a MIDI card on the PC, a sync can be done between the VS DAW and the PC using MIDI Clock or MTC, and a digital cable connected to the SP/Dif output, with a Roland EDIROL SP/Dif /USB converter. A lengthy process, but stereo pairs can be transferred across to the pc in real time, and simply recorded into your favourite pc DAW.
So true, so true.
In fact, the method that many people used for years - even before I was willing to venture into PC-land, myself.
Creating a method (or methods) for data backup of VS songs to PC is/has been quite a different story. Thankfully, a very small handfull of really great folk have made a few methods possible.
Advantages in respect to audio quality having been that a person can retain not only perfect sync between tracks, but also the original sample and bit rate - and do so without the time-consuming process that re-recording between the machines requires.
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uptildawn
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#1260297 - 11/21/13 03:02 AM
Re: Song Vault: Resource Thread for 1680/1880/1824 Data Backup (CD + SCSI HD)
[Re: FlametopFred]
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hinchmusicman
Space Cadet
Registered: 11/19/13
Posts: 4
Loc: Upstate NY.
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Just bought a VS 1824 CD used, it needs a new CDR burner drive,
I can hear the laser locking up..Unit doesn't read or play any CD's
Anybody know where I can find a replacement for this CD drive
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#1263802 - 12/08/13 12:38 PM
Re: Song Vault: Resource Thread for 1680/1880/1824 Data Backup (CD + SCSI HD)
[Re: hinchmusicman]
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Plugg3dIn
Space Cadet
Registered: 12/08/13
Posts: 7
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Just picked up my first system, looking for ways to transfer to Mac (wav), maybe card readers?
Edited by Plugg3dIn (02/02/14 07:18 PM)
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#1263817 - 12/08/13 04:55 PM
Re: Song Vault: Resource Thread for 1680/1880/1824 Data Backup (CD + SCSI HD)
[Re: Plugg3dIn]
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uptildawn
Planeteer
Registered: 12/15/01
Posts: 9073
Loc: on land
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I'm not knowledgeable enough about these to know how each adapter's specs influence your results when using them with the VS, but if it were me.... I'd get the CF reader and the SD to CF adapter for the VS side. That has the potential for more flexibility, since you could use both SD and CF cards.
I also don't know the depth of detail needed to advise properly about which card is "better" to use in the VS, but my own earlier testing showed me that the range of SD cards, based on class, is pretty limited. For example, I had better results with class 6 cards than with class 10 cards.
I've also read that CF cards "could" be a better choice than SD, but again, I don't have the understanding to tell you why, or which ones outperform the SD card-type...
You will likely find it necessary to find the perfect matches through trial and error, which is another reason I personally favor the CF/SD combo choices.
I assume you've already gotten the Mac side of your solution figured out, or taken care of, with some sort of multi-card reader installed in the computer? If not, consider getting a multi-card reader that reads both CF and SDHC/SD card types, at least. If you get the CF reader for the VS and have the right reader on your mac, then you can actually leave an SD card inserted in the CF adapter and not have to swap it out to go to the mac.
Some food for thought, anyway.
Best of luck.
Edited by uptildawn (12/08/13 04:56 PM)
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uptildawn
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#1264569 - 12/11/13 09:40 PM
Re: Song Vault: Resource Thread for 1680/1880/1824 Data Backup (CD + SCSI HD)
[Re: uptildawn]
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Plugg3dIn
Space Cadet
Registered: 12/08/13
Posts: 7
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I have a CD burner on the way (Plextor off ebay)
Edited by Plugg3dIn (12/18/13 07:15 PM)
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