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#1693567 - 11/25/20 05:05 PM VS machines crackles
Anthony_Scott Offline
Space Cadet


Registered: 10/20/14
Posts: 21
Loc: Russia
Hi Guys! Traveling around the VS-Planet, I came across several alarming topics about various random crackles that accompany the playback or recording of VS machines.
Seems I have a similar problem with crackles also.
This defect occurs on both my 2400 machines ... for probably 2 years already.
When the VS just turned on (machine is cold), crackles has a rather intense audible character when I begin playback. When it warms up (about 20-30 minutes), the intense crackles disappear. But! A few infrequent single clicks can be during work in random moment and they, bastards, they are also recorded from track to track (when I do ping-pong rec from tracks on which I did a lot of non-linear editing), and this is very infuriating!
I also noticed that after a warm-up time, NO crackles on work at MTP mode. Periodically crackles only at M24 and M16 mode (and I work mostly in M24).
I think that this defect is more or less repeatable after years of work in almost all VS machines for many users, and it seems to me that some component on the motherboard starts to fail with time. It seems to me a reasonable solution to search for this element with "glitching" parameters (perhaps it is some passive component or a quartz oscillator).
I would be glad for opinions, or perhaps someone has already found the cause of the problem. Thanks for attention.
_________________________
Roland VS-2400 x 2, ADA-7000 x 2, Otari MX-80, Otari MX-5050 x 2, TC Finalizer96k, Waves MaxxBCL, Alesis Masterlink, Tube-Tech SMC2B, TC M3000, Tube-Tech MEC1A, Speck X.Sum, Rode NTK pair, Neumann SM69, U87 vintage pair, Audix D6, Shure 57's, 58's, Mosses&Mitchell TT patchbays and more gear...

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#1703120 - 12/14/20 04:36 AM Re: VS machines crackles [Re: Anthony_Scott]
Krowten Offline
Planeteer


Registered: 11/07/08
Posts: 97
The crackling is super annoying. It has seemingly always happened on my 2400, which I've had now for 14 years. I shut the machine down and reboot. That usually takes care of it. Happened to me just today, in fact. One reboot and it was fine.
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#1718434 - 02/24/21 05:23 AM Re: VS machines crackles [Re: Krowten]
MusicianJerry Offline
Space Cadet


Registered: 05/03/20
Posts: 25
Loc: Leeuwarden, The Netherlands
 Originally Posted By: Krowten
The crackling is super annoying. It has seemingly always happened on my 2400, which I've had now for 14 years. ...
Hi there folks. "Good news everyone!" For real. \:\)

It seems that there is a solution for that crackling problem.
But it involves opening up the machine and soldering in new capacitors. It's those electrolytic capacitors that are failing. In the forum part for the VS-2480 there's a topic talking about that. In another crackling topic called 'Crackling/ popping sounds.' A solution is talked about on the second page of that topic when 2 [now even 3] people got it fixed.
http://www.vsplanet.com/ubbthreads/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=1441648#Post1441648

 Originally Posted By: Anthony_Scott
Hi Guys! ...
... Seems I have a similar problem with crackles also.
This defect occurs on both my 2400 machines ... for probably 2 years already. ...

... I think that this defect is more or less repeatable after years of work in almost all VS machines for many users, and it seems to me that some component on the motherboard starts to fail with time. ...
Yep, your absolutely right about that.
So head over that other topic about crackling where a solution is found for most [or all?] problems with that.
_________________________
Greetings from Jeroen. aka MusicianJerry aka
The (street-)musician
from Leeuwarden, the Netherlands.

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#1722938 - 03/27/21 09:51 AM Re: VS machines crackles [Re: MusicianJerry]
Anthony_Scott Offline
Space Cadet


Registered: 10/20/14
Posts: 21
Loc: Russia
 Originally Posted By: MusicianJerry

It seems that there is a solution for that crackling problem.
But it involves opening up the machine and soldering in new capacitors...


Yes, I read this and similar threads, and besides everything, I am also engaged in the service of audio equipment ... this is not a problem ...
but helping others often, I have time for myself in the last place)))
especially since I have now a lot of work in the studio on a musical project,
it also takes time.

BUT!
Yesterday I finally got inside one of the VS2400 machine, and observed the supply voltage on the various DC buses of the motherboard with an oscilloscope. Many buses (especially 3.3V) had significantly increased noise ripple, periodically reaching 0.5V and higher!

Then I got to the electronic parts shop, bought new capacitors (mostly it's Samwha RD and some JB JRB).

I unsoldered the old caps and decided to check them for some statistics.
Most of them have lost 20-25 percent of their capacity, some have lost half,
but this is not the root of the problem.
All capacitors dismantled from the VS machine have a significantly increased ESR, and for example, if for a new capacitor of 100 μF, the ESR norm is somewhere around 0.5 ohm, the removed caps have an ESR in the range of 5...30 ohms, that is, 10-60 times (!).

The 3.3v power supply for several large IC's on the motherboard is PWM, mains PSU is also PWM; in addition, the character of current consumption by various circuit is also pulsed, and a large number of caps on motherboard are used to smooth out noise ripples. When the caps are worn out and have an increased ESR, they no longer work in impulse circuits, and problems begin in the operation of the machine.

Many (like me) also noted that when you turn on the machine from a cold state, it sometimes cannot start, you need to do 2 or 3 restarts sometimes. And after it started, as it warms up, the crackles noise disappear after 10-20 minutes. This is also due to worn-out capacitors, since in a heated state (from the heat of the IC's on the motherboard) their capacity increases noticeably, and ESR also significantly decreases, therefore, when heat accumulates on the motherboard and in the chassis, everything seems to work normally.

In some positions, I installed caps with double the capacity (220uF instead of 100).

After replacing the caps, my 2400 began to start immediately, NO crackles, and the external LCD monitor began to show better and clearer
(before replacing the capacitors, there were some moving stripes and ripples on the screens on white background).

I want to say thank you to the guys who suggested a method to replace the caps and finally inspired me to work, it really helps.
It remains to change the caps on my second 2400, and maybe I will record a video of the repair process.
_________________________
Roland VS-2400 x 2, ADA-7000 x 2, Otari MX-80, Otari MX-5050 x 2, TC Finalizer96k, Waves MaxxBCL, Alesis Masterlink, Tube-Tech SMC2B, TC M3000, Tube-Tech MEC1A, Speck X.Sum, Rode NTK pair, Neumann SM69, U87 vintage pair, Audix D6, Shure 57's, 58's, Mosses&Mitchell TT patchbays and more gear...

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#1725511 - 04/12/21 04:09 AM Re: VS machines crackles [Re: Anthony_Scott]
MusicianJerry Offline
Space Cadet


Registered: 05/03/20
Posts: 25
Loc: Leeuwarden, The Netherlands
 Originally Posted By: Anthony_Scott
 Originally Posted By: MusicianJerry

...opening up the machine and soldering in new capacitors...


Yes, I read this and similar threads, and besides everything, I am also engaged in the service of audio equipment ... this is not a problem ...
but helping others often, I have time for myself in the last place))) ...

I can totally understand that.

 Quote:
BUT!
Yesterday I finally got inside one of the VS2400 machine, and observed the supply voltage on the various DC buses of the motherboard with an oscilloscope. Many buses (especially 3.3V) had significantly increased noise ripple, periodically reaching 0.5V and higher!

Then I got to the electronic parts shop, bought new capacitors (mostly it's Samwha RD and some JB JRB).....

... All capacitors dismantled from the VS machine have a significantly increased ESR, and for example, if for a new capacitor of 100 μF, the ESR norm is somewhere around 0.5 ohm, the removed caps have an ESR in the range of 5...30 ohms, that is, 10-60 times (!). ...

... In some positions, I installed caps with double the capacity (220uF instead of 100).

After replacing the caps, my 2400 began to start immediately, NO crackles, and the external LCD monitor began to show better and clearer
(before replacing the capacitors, there were some moving stripes and ripples on the screens on white background).

I want to say thank you to the guys who suggested a method to replace the caps and finally inspired me to work, it really helps.
It remains to change the caps on my second 2400, and maybe I will record a video of the repair process.
Woohoo, alright then.

Great to read that you fixed your problems with the machine.
Also sort of great to read that in a lot of cases it's 'only'
those capacitors that failed.
Although for a lot of people this means big trouble.
But for those who dare, or can, this is a doable operation.
Also, I read that one guy had it fixed in a repair shop. \:\)
Good idea... If you can find a repair guy willing to do it.

Good luck on the repairing of the second machine.
Fantastic that there still are a lot of people using these
Roland VS machines. I have a VS-2000cd myself.

have a great time singing/ playing/ recording/ mixing/
mastering some cool music.
_________________________
Greetings from Jeroen. aka MusicianJerry aka
The (street-)musician
from Leeuwarden, the Netherlands.

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