#1705617 - 12/27/20 03:23 AM
Any known issues taking wav files from Logic to Reaper?
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RD
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Hey folks...I'm using Reaper for my mix setup this trip around the sun, and still recording in the first instances on my VS 1680. I'm sending off tracks (rough mixed mp3s) to collaborators in England.
Question: they work in Logic and will send me wav files. I'm assuming that as long as zero means zero to both of us, things will import ok into Reaper.
Are there any other thoughts or issues on what we will be doing here? I'd be much obliged to learn if I'm missing any steps...any advice or helpful ideas would be golden!
And Merry and Happy season!!
Rick
Edited by RD (12/27/20 03:28 AM)
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#1705628 - 12/27/20 06:30 AM
Re: Any known issues taking wav files from Logic to Reaper?
[Re: RD]
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uptildawn
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If you must record IN the 1680 (as opposed to simply using the 1680 as a mixer/fx processor to record into Reaper), the the main issue you will have is with track sync (the timing of your tracks along the timeline), regardless of whether or not you all start at true zero.
Basically, the timing will drift over time - even as little as 1-1/2 minutes is noticeable, so drift over a typical 3-4 minute pop tune will definitely not work unless you have sync.
You will have to manage sync between the Reaper playback tracks (that you are recording along with) and those you are recording into the 1680 by way of MIDI and more than likely MTC (Midi Time Code).
I don't recall if you're doing this already, or are familiar with it. But the manual spells it out pretty clearly. You will probably have to use their example of using Logic??? I don't recall.... maybe they outline it using Sonar.... You'll find it okay, I'm sure.
But you will probably want midi cables for both in and out between the pc and 1680. If you don't have anything set up on the pc side for midi yet, you'd better get on it soon.
If I think of anything else, I will post back sometime later in the day - as it's late and my brain is fried.
Merry, Happy, Joy, Fa La La, Ho Ho Ho...
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uptildawn
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#1705631 - 12/27/20 11:29 AM
Re: Any known issues taking wav files from Logic to Reaper?
[Re: uptildawn]
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RD
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Thanks Dan! What I've been doing is recording everything in the 1680, backing up through VirDis, making wav files and dropping them into Reaper...i.e. the project migrates to Reaper for the sharing and mixing phase. I'm not planning to move any tracks back into the VS. ( I've asked about doing that in prior threads but considering all, I will be mixing in Reaper as it turns out)...
The simple truth is that I really like the ease of use and sound of the VS 1680 for capturing, and the editing capability (and alot of other things) with Reaper...
So my question could have been better or perhaps more accurately asked as to whether any issues might arise in combining and assembling wav files from different origins into Reaper (at which stage the 1680 will be off). I'm using my wav files (which I've rendered and sent as an MP3 demo for the collaborators to play to, in creating their files)and those files will not be coming back into the 1680...
I've fancied myself pretty clever for avoiding the whole midi thing...but perhaps that was premature? Lol or immature!
Edited by RD (12/27/20 11:31 AM)
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#1705640 - 12/27/20 03:59 PM
Re: Any known issues taking wav files from Logic to Reaper?
[Re: RD]
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uptildawn
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That's precisely what I was talking about, RD.
You won't be able to keep the Reaper files you use for reference and the files you record on the 1680 in sync, once you export the 1680 tracks to the pc and import them into the reaper project.
You've only had to import 1680 tracks into reaper so far. You haven't had to use reference tracks playing from the pc, while recording new ones on the 1680 - and then had to import those into reaper to mix with the reference tracks.
Files from different origins, as you put it, must be kept in sync. This is the "problem" that must be resolved.
The only real way around your reluctance to learn how to use MIDI to sync the two machines would be for you to take the reference tracks you receive and import them into the 1680 - and then record your new tracks to that reference... which you then would export/import ALL of them back to reaper and discard the original reference tracks.
Problem there is that you can't simply IMPORT tracks back into the 1680, since it has no wav import function. Your only choice there would be to re-record the reference track playback from reaper INTO the 1680 to create new reference tracks on the VS. Of course, it could also be advantageous to have to re-record the reference tracks, if there's a possibility of making any "improvements" to them during the recording pass to the 1680.
Do keep this in mind -
You can use VirDIS to export from the 1680 and import into Reaper. You CAN'T export from Reaper and import into the 1680.
2480 users can do this, because they have a wav import function which the 1680 does not have.
Edited by uptildawn (12/27/20 04:04 PM)
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#1705666 - 12/27/20 08:07 PM
Re: Any known issues taking wav files from Logic to Reaper?
[Re: uptildawn]
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RD
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Thanks Dan...so far I've done all the tracks IN the 1680, and sent them via Virdis/wav to the Reaper pc. So I haven't had to keep the two machines locked because I'm not going back and forth...that is, it's a one way path from 1680 to Reaper. Record in 1680, back up and send wav's to Reaper.
You have of course found my weakness...if my collaborators return something recorded to my Reaper reference, I won't be able to use the 1680 to tweak or record further without syncing...makes perfect sense.
I will be getting wav files back that are recorded by collaborators to my Reaper reference tracks, so they should be importable into Reaper, no?
And if I need to record more to the tracks after collaborators return their parts, I'm assuming I'd need to do that IN Reaper to avoid the drift...
In the meantime I'm off to learn the sync...you've very kindly provided a number of posts there so I'll have plenty to study!!
Thanks again! R
Edited by RD (12/27/20 08:08 PM)
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#1705670 - 12/27/20 09:09 PM
Re: Any known issues taking wav files from Logic to Reaper?
[Re: RD]
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uptildawn
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You would be correct on both accounts.
There is always the option of always re-recording reference tracks onto the 1680, then recording new tracks, then importing them all back to reaper, in order to send new tracks to collaborators. The tracks they send back will be in sync with the reference track(s) you sent them. So you should be able to retain your copy of the reference tracks to combine with their new tracks - as long as it's still in Reaper. You could go on like that indefinitely - so long as you always re-record any reference tracks from your reaper into the 1680 and only record more 1680 tracks relative to that reference set - and then import ALL back to reaper, discarding your previous reaper reference track and using the 1680 version instead.
That would probably not be a great way to do things.
Also, if any of you depend on time-aligned tracks in reaper, set to be in sync with the metronome and timeline, my guess is that you would soon find even a single song drifting way off beat with the metronome after a pass or two between VS and PC.
If it were all free of a click, then everything would just remain in sync with itself throughout the convoluted process at least.
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#1705672 - 12/27/20 09:21 PM
Re: Any known issues taking wav files from Logic to Reaper?
[Re: uptildawn]
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RD
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Lol 😂 and I have been laboring over establishing metronome settings inside Reaper... The tutorials are actually brilliant, but the learning curve was pretty steep for a guy like me with no background at all in daws.
What I ended up doing in one instance (and you probably recall this discussion it's back a few months) was using my 1680 to record a metronome track since the metronome from the 1680 does not export. It was a brilliant idea on your part, which worked perfectly.
Once I put the project into Reaper, I had my transient points from the metronome to line up and Reaper immediately recognize the exact same time of 92 beats per minute. I played the song all the way through holding my breath but it stayed right smack on the metronome markings. And, when I turned off my track and turned on the metronome in the reaper software it was exactly the same. That was actually a big hassle initially and I was also importing my files without having the track cursor at zero and everything was jumbled all over the place. Add to that my not understanding files and I was inadvertently dropping tracks into tracks and losing things and it was just like time to take drugs or something! Now however, the light has come on and I'm smart enough at least to know how to ask the questions and what verbiage is required LOL.
once the metronomes both agreed, I could turn on the grid lines and nudge things around because the drummer is a clown (me).
I'm really going to be doing more and more and Reaper by way of collaboration and mixing... But your idea of dropping everything back into the 1680 and importing all those files and getting rid of my original references makes perfect sense if I needed to do that. It'll be a lot easier for me to just record in Reaper anything that I need to record since I'm the one writing and recording all of the tracks in the first instance, and sending those off for one or two tracks to a couple of collaborators.
If it were the other way around it would be incredibly cumbersome, but getting into recording some of the material straight into Reaper from my interface is something I've wanted to do anyway and that'll be where things go if I need to let's say add a vocal or something.
I still plan to stubbornly adhere to the vs 1680 as the place where most of my tracking is done in the first instance, pre-collaboration. (I'm basically using it like I would an analog tape deck or something)
I've also gotten some advice from the folks at the reaper forums to use a mouse with a wheel. I'm actually getting to like it quite a bit as a change...
Thank you so much Dan, you've really made this process a lot more understandable. I'll report back as things go and join the discussion when other people come along asking the same questions! LOL
Merry Christmas and happy New year in the meantime!
Edited by RD (12/27/20 09:30 PM)
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#1705676 - 12/27/20 10:03 PM
Re: Any known issues taking wav files from Logic to Reaper?
[Re: RD]
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uptildawn
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Not only is a mouse with a wheel a great enhancement, but I've gotten so used to a wireless trackball mouse that I can barely stand to use a standard mouse anymore... especially a wired mouse.
Say, an interesting experiment might be to set a click in both reaper and the 1680 and then manually start them at the same time to see how long before you would notice any drift.
I don't know that it would demonstrate how recorded tracks might behave, but interesting maybe, just to see.
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#1705731 - 12/28/20 03:59 AM
Re: Any known issues taking wav files from Logic to Reaper?
[Re: uptildawn]
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RD
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I'll try that!
I've been doing what I usually do...reading through your earlier answers. Now I'm wondering if I should use the 1680 to control the Reaper software...if I'm conceiving this correctly, once they're in sync I could still use my 1680 for the front end but just track to Reaper tracks...again, if I'm thinking about this correctly, this would solve the drift issues as all the tracks would originate, be shared from, and return to Reaper.
Ok, what's wrong with this thought?
Because if I'm on good ground, I'll get cracking on the cakewalk or sonar or logic whatever the manual coaches me on...and try to apply it to Reaper.
:-)
Edited by RD (12/28/20 04:00 AM)
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#1705745 - 12/28/20 05:42 AM
Re: Any known issues taking wav files from Logic to Reaper?
[Re: RD]
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uptildawn
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You don't necessarily need to turn the 1680 into a control surface for Reaper, if that's what you mean, but you certainly could use it as the front end - like a mixer - and track in Reaper. That is, if you have a pc interface that has analog inputs that you like the sound of and as many as you would need in one pass (say 8 channels/tracks of live drums for instance)...
You could also use digital spdif inputs of the coaxial (rca jack) or optical (adat-looking toslink) variety to match what the 1680 has. I believe you're limited to 2 channels at once in an either/or choice between coaxial and optical - although I could be wrong - you'll want to double-check that idea.
You might even be able to pass up to 8 channels of audio through combinations of analog and digital at one time, but I'm not sure anymore. It's been too long to remember, yet not long enough to wish I was still doing things that way. 
You wouldn't need midi sync in a simple mixer into Reaper setup, but you would if you want to send 1680-recorded tracks to add onto Reaper tracks.
If you want to control Reaper with the 1680 (as in cakewalk, sonar, etc.) and use the 1680 as a live mixer with effects at the same time, then you will still need MIDI, but only in so far as you need it to send/receive control commands. You would not need it for simple mixer needs. The 1680 is simply an audio front end in that case, as mentioned.
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#1705767 - 12/28/20 02:25 PM
Re: Any known issues taking wav files from Logic to Reaper?
[Re: uptildawn]
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RD
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Thanks Dan! I'm actually following that...very cool ideas.
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#1720732 - 03/12/21 02:03 PM
Re: Any known issues taking wav files from Logic to Reaper?
[Re: RD]
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RD
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A further thought. I haven't tried this but I bet it could work. I wonder if I could simply LISTEN to my Reaper project in the headphones and simultaneously record any additional tracks to the Roland, make a wav file and import/assemble it to the Reaper project?
I'd be tracking to the Reaper but recording the file on Roland. Don't think there could be any issues with clocks or sync as I'd be monitoring the Reaper tracks while recording...it might be like working with tape in a way...
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#1720737 - 03/12/21 02:26 PM
Re: Any known issues taking wav files from Logic to Reaper?
[Re: RD]
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uptildawn
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You'd just have to try it out, I guess.
I'm pretty certain that when tracking off one tape machine and recording to another, the two machines are still being sync'd. And they're being kept in sync the entire time that multiple machines are needed to play all the tracks.
Long ago, I used to assume that once you started recording in the digital domain, that everything should just automatically be lined up, if the pitch and speed appeared to be the same. It definitely hasn't panned out that way whenever I tried to line 2 recordings from 2 machines (that hadn't been sync'd) and put them in a single daw.
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#1720752 - 03/12/21 03:14 PM
Re: Any known issues taking wav files from Logic to Reaper?
[Re: uptildawn]
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RD
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Yeah, I'll try it. Seems that if listening to the original track, then whatever I record to, at whatever speed, should be aligned (in its own way but still aligned) with the original monitored source. My theory stems from the fact that a. The Roland will play back consistently, and B there is only one clock being used to track.
I'm willing to be wrong (used to it lol)
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#1720753 - 03/12/21 03:16 PM
Re: Any known issues taking wav files from Logic to Reaper?
[Re: uptildawn]
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RD
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Yeah, I'll try it. Seems that if listening to the original track, then whatever I record to, at whatever speed, should be aligned (in its own way but still aligned) with the original monitored source. My theory stems from the fact that a. The Roland will play back consistently, and B there is only one clock being used to track.
I have occasion to try this as we have assembled shared tracks in Reaper and I wish to do some overdubs. I'm planning to try to monitor Reaper track project, record drum fills in Roland, export to VirDis and make a wav, and send THAT TRACK ONLY to a new track in Reaper.
I'm willing to be wrong (used to it lol)
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