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#1729603 - 05/11/21 10:40 PM 880 + S3030 + Finalizer vs 880EX / 890
Geefresh95 Offline
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Registered: 03/03/21
Posts: 126
Bonjour.

I'm currenty loving using a 880 (had a 1880 about a decade ago but went back to cassettes ferabit). With it, I have just a Roland S3030 reverb and a TC Electronic Finalizer and Marantz PMD570 CF recorder for mixing through/to.

I am on a quest to make my set-up as simple and small as possible, so would like to move to a 880ex or 890 with a view to then dumping the 3030 and Finalizer, if the reverbs in the VS8F-2, compared to the VS8F-1, and mastering effects are good enough.

The VS8F-1 revs are pretty good with tweaking...but I like REALLY long, deep reverbs, so needed the 3030. Obvs I don't need super pro-sounding mastering, as I still release on cassette...just taming of highs and lows and a bit of extra level.

So, can the VS8F-2 deliver on those two? The extra inputs and backlight have sold it to me anyway, but being able to replace two bits of hardware wouold seal the deal.

Thanks.

Geoff

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#1729613 - 05/11/21 11:18 PM Re: 880 + S3030 + Finalizer vs 880EX / 890 [Re: Geefresh95]
uptildawn Offline
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Registered: 12/15/01
Posts: 9084
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Not sure that you can achieve the quality of taming and mastering of the Finalizer and Marantz external chain, using the VS' MTK mastering effects chains. But maybe I just never learned (or knew) enough about the proper use of such effects in the years I used the 1680 and vs8f-2 cards the most. You might want to experiment a bunch before you let go of those 2 pieces of gear.

Not sure, also, of whether or not you will like or find the 'qualities' you need in the available reverbs of the vs8f-2 cards. I had my personal favorites and found long verbs that fit my needs just fine, back then - also a fan of very long verbs.

Again, I'd expect to test and compare mixes done with both internal and external reverb chains for awhile before deciding to dump one. You could possibly even find that both work well together and in ways you hadn't conceived up to now.

Personally (and considering how close prices are these days), my preference for the much larger lcd display of the 1680 and 1880 far outweighs the overall size difference between those in the 880 league of recorders. Each to his own though - as they say.
Good luck with the conversion. I'm sure the backlit display of the 880ex and 890 will make a world of difference.


Edited by uptildawn (05/11/21 11:21 PM)
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uptildawn

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#1729833 - 05/13/21 08:57 AM Re: 880 + S3030 + Finalizer vs 880EX / 890 [Re: uptildawn]
Geefresh95 Offline
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Registered: 03/03/21
Posts: 126
Thanks for your reply.

I just can't remember the VS8F-2 effects (I had 2 boards on the 1880 I had). Comparing what info I can find online, it looks like the algorithms are same, or have the same names at least. So what might be the differences? More parameters or better bit-depth, perhaps? Just the addition of the MTK?

If you have access to one to check, what is the longest decay time the Cathedral or Large Hall have on the VS8F-2 please?

Hmmm, yes, obvs the Finalizer is a quality piece...but having as much of an 'all in one' solution as poss is very appealing to me. I just need a bit of multiband compression so the low-end doesn't steal all my headroom (easily done with cassettes) and, at the end of the day, I just have my 12-bit sampler to record so high fidelity isn't a requirement, ha ha.


Edited by Geefresh95 (05/13/21 09:03 AM)

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#1729870 - 05/13/21 03:33 PM Re: 880 + S3030 + Finalizer vs 880EX / 890 [Re: Geefresh95]
uptildawn Offline
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Registered: 12/15/01
Posts: 9084
Loc: on land
largest room size available for the verbs is 40m (I assume that must be meters?). Longest decay time is 32 seconds. All the verbs have these adjustable parameters:
Room size
Time
Predelay
Diffusion
Density
Low and High freq. dampening (gain and freq)
Early reflection level
efx level
Hi-cut level
Direct level

plus they all have a separately editable 3-band eq, with low and hi bands adjustable for peak or shelving types.

The MTK were an addition/update of the 'v-xpanded' os.....
I don't recall if they added to their standard fx or changed them in any way with that v-xpanded update.

Personally, I didn't have any problem getting long decay times for most of what I recorded - 32 seconds is pretty long - not infinite, of course.... and many external fx processors have infinite settings, which is great!

I am also in the 'all in one as much as possible' camp. That's why I rarely ever go outside the box with the pc-based system I mostly use today.
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#1729887 - 05/13/21 05:32 PM Re: 880 + S3030 + Finalizer vs 880EX / 890 [Re: uptildawn]
gyorpb Offline
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Registered: 05/11/19
Posts: 298
All of that info (for all effects patches) are listed in the Appendices to the Owner‘s Manuals. Which you should be able to find on the internet without much effort.
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#1729941 - 05/13/21 10:57 PM Re: 880 + S3030 + Finalizer vs 880EX / 890 [Re: uptildawn]
Geefresh95 Offline
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Registered: 03/03/21
Posts: 126
Thanks again, Uptildawn.

Hmmmm, it looks like things between the 1 and 2 fx cards are very similar then. There are a few extra effects, like a specific Tape Echo group and obvs the MTK, but I wonder if the *quality* of the effects is different?

Aaaaaanyway, I'll find out I guess, as I just bought an EX. I missed out on a new-in-box one on eBay a few weeks ago coz I hesitated, which traumatised me somewhat, ha ha, so this is a slight redemption.

I had a further fiddle with the verbs in the 880 today, up against the S3030, and decided that they are more than fine for what I need, so even if the VS8F-2 ones are exactly the same, that's no problem. Not as many parameters to tweak as the 3030, of course...but, as you can probs tell, I like things simple and rarely tweak things in that much detail anyway. Thinking of printing just the reverb to a stereo track and then applying RSS to that. That should space things up enough for me!

Gotta be hardware for me. Computers for music doesn't 'fit' in my head somehow. It'll now be... MPC60 and Bass Station rack into VS880EX into PMD570. Beautiful.


Edited by Geefresh95 (05/13/21 11:00 PM)

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#1729951 - 05/13/21 11:55 PM Re: 880 + S3030 + Finalizer vs 880EX / 890 [Re: Geefresh95]
uptildawn Offline
Planeteer


Registered: 12/15/01
Posts: 9084
Loc: on land
Not to burst your bubble, but the VS recorders are also computers. \:\)

I know what you mean, but seeing the pc/daw as an expanded version of the 1680 is precisely what drew me into the pc world.
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uptildawn

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#1729956 - 05/14/21 12:24 AM Re: 880 + S3030 + Finalizer vs 880EX / 890 [Re: uptildawn]
Geefresh95 Offline
Planeteer


Registered: 03/03/21
Posts: 126
Yeah, obvs it's all 1s and 0s but, I dunno, it has to be a dedicated box. Music on a flat computer screen has never 'fitted' in my head in some way. My age and my aspieness, I guess. It has to go into a box, even if it's a digital box now, rather than my usual tape machines. And, it's almost a cliche to say it these days, but I like/need the limitations of hardware to be creative. Endlessness is nothingness. Maaaaaaaaaaaan.
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#1733163 - 05/30/21 04:54 PM Re: 880 + S3030 + Finalizer vs 880EX / 890 [Re: Geefresh95]
Geefresh95 Offline
Planeteer


Registered: 03/03/21
Posts: 126
Just an update.

Had the EX for a few days and I defo made the right decision. To-the-bare-bones minimal set-up, just like wot I wanted, and the EX's fx are fantastic, so I shan't miss the outboard. Well, a tremolo wouldn't go amiss...but the reverbs are way beyond what I was expecting. I finally found it stated somewhere that, indeed, the difference between the VS8F-1 and 2 is the bits (16 vs 24). And the extra algorithms, of course. The RE-201 Tape Echo sims are GREAT too. After having a few of the real things over the years, I always found, surprisingly, Roland's Space Echo emulations to be a bit rubbish, even on the Boss 201 pedal, and I even prefered the one on the Korg Kaos Pad...but this one on here is brilliant. It even has the random warbles and burps!

AND I can now see what I'm doing without having a goose-neck torch flapping about the place!

Anyway, so, yeah...one happy camper here! MPC, bass synth rack, VS880EX...BOOOOOOOOM!!! I'll post summat up when I finish my first track!


Edited by Geefresh95 (05/30/21 04:56 PM)

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