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#1816034 - 10/11/22 04:03 PM How to bypass pre's on my vs-2480
gre Offline
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Registered: 08/20/11
Posts: 141
Just wondering what equipment to get and how to bypass my mic pre's on the 2480. I'm using the m24 mode and had the mic pre knobs at about 1/8" up so almost all the way down but I get what they call the 'blanket' effect where its a bit muddy (not sure if having the pre volume knobs all the way down will make much of a difference?). So I'm looking to bypass the pre's and use my digimax D8 into the 2480 via optical cable. I have some other preamps as well but they don't have the digital out. What else what I need to get to make this work? thanks
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#1816036 - 10/11/22 04:08 PM Re: How to bypass pre's on my vs-2480 [Re: gre]
gre Offline
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Registered: 08/20/11
Posts: 141
I wonder if this Behringer ADA8200 would work? It has a built in converter in it.
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#1816058 - 10/11/22 05:36 PM Re: How to bypass pre's on my vs-2480 [Re: gre]
zoomduck Offline
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Registered: 07/20/02
Posts: 34
Loc: Martinez CA
Not a bypass but I leave the input volumes all the way down and the pads off. Use outboard pre's with no problem.
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#1816088 - 10/11/22 07:23 PM Re: How to bypass pre's on my vs-2480 [Re: zoomduck]
gre Offline
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Registered: 08/20/11
Posts: 141
Have you noticed a big difference on muddiness? Would all the way down be any different then barely up? I can't seem to get the clarity of other mixes I hear no matter what mics or recording techniques I use. Everything has that blanket over it.
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#1816089 - 10/11/22 07:53 PM Re: How to bypass pre's on my vs-2480 [Re: gre]
gre Offline
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Registered: 08/20/11
Posts: 141
Will any ad converter work or does it have to be specifically roland? Do the dif-at, dif-at24 and the AE-7000 all basically do the same thing? Or can I get a different piece of gear that would do the same?
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#1816096 - 10/11/22 08:50 PM Re: How to bypass pre's on my vs-2480 [Re: gre]
Catweazle Offline
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Registered: 06/06/20
Posts: 248
Loc: Stockholm Sweden
How do you monitor your recordings ?
If you play a regular CD in the VS's "CD-Player", does it sound
lika having a "blanket" over it too ??
Any difference between monitors / headphones ?
How is your room treated ?

i think the pre-amps in the VS-2480 is pretty good up to 12 o'clock.
But I also use outboard pre amps when signal from mic's is too low ...


Cheers !

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#1816105 - 10/11/22 09:28 PM Re: How to bypass pre's on my vs-2480 [Re: Catweazle]
gre Offline
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Registered: 08/20/11
Posts: 141
I have studio monitors and nice headphones. No a regular cd does not sound muffled. I recorded probably around 30 songs on a vs-1880 and it always had that certain muddy sound, so I upgraded to the 2480 thinking it would help but it still has that sound. My dad recorded on a cheapish tascam 12 track with much better clearer audio, and with much less nice equipment. Of course he has golden ears but mine aren't too far off.

Edited by gre (10/12/22 12:56 AM)

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#1816163 - 10/12/22 08:53 AM Re: How to bypass pre's on my vs-2480 [Re: gre]
Catweazle Offline
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Registered: 06/06/20
Posts: 248
Loc: Stockholm Sweden
If you had the same "issue" with the VS-1880 maybe the
"muddy problem" is your microphones / cables ....
How old are your microphones ?

Microphones has a thin "foam" inside the grille to protect
from wind and pop noise, and when the microphone gets
old that "foam" sometimes dissolves and go back to the
sticky slime it was created from, witch then clog the grille
from the inside ....

If you record line instruments ( keyboard / drum machine )
do they sound muddy too ?

Just some thoughts .......


Cheers !

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#1816226 - 10/12/22 07:23 PM Re: How to bypass pre's on my vs-2480 [Re: Catweazle]
gre Offline
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Registered: 08/20/11
Posts: 141
I have fairly new and great condition mics: at4050, sm7b, sm81, c214, sm57's etc etc. Cables are great. Believe me its none of that its the overall thing many others complain about. Some say its a vintage sound others say its a blanket or muddiness. The recordings sound good overall with attention to detail with mic selection and placement. Its just that haze over the whole thing, can't get the separation or clarity. Pretty sure with my research its the mic pres, which aren't bad but just like clean enough. I got a dif-at and have an external preamp with adat so I will see if that helps and report back. thanks

Edited by gre (10/12/22 07:23 PM)

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#1816236 - 10/12/22 08:27 PM Re: How to bypass pre's on my vs-2480 [Re: gre]
gyorpb Offline
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Registered: 05/11/19
Posts: 295
Mind you, the DIF-AT is a 20-bit device. You’ll lose some resolution.
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#1816515 - 10/15/22 05:40 AM Re: How to bypass pre's on my vs-2480 [Re: gyorpb]
gre Offline
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Registered: 08/20/11
Posts: 141
I'm aware of that but I've never been able to tell the difference. I know for mastering it helps but its not a deal breaker.
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#1816516 - 10/15/22 05:41 AM Re: How to bypass pre's on my vs-2480 [Re: gre]
gre Offline
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Registered: 08/20/11
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BTW does anyone know of another alternative route to using a dif-at? I mean is there another device that does the same thing.
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#1816534 - 10/15/22 12:24 PM Re: How to bypass pre's on my vs-2480 [Re: gre]
gyorpb Offline
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Registered: 05/11/19
Posts: 295
Bear’s ADAT-to-RBUS device, if you can lay hands one. Or Roland’s DIF-AT24.

It’s relatively straightforward, really. A bunch of inverters, a set of ADAT encoder/decoder chips (1401/1402), and a handful of passive components.

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#1816537 - 10/15/22 12:54 PM Re: How to bypass pre's on my vs-2480 [Re: gyorpb]
March Offline
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Registered: 04/26/99
Posts: 2069
Loc: IA
The VS convertors are pretty good, IMO. On par with the onboard VS preamps. Not stellar, but serviceable.
Try notching all the tracks at 400 KHz--about 2-3dB. That's where the mud usually collects. Go easy on the looped FX, too
You are right though; the sound of a VS-recorded CD rings richer (or muddier) especially when played on a different system--like in your car. It may also boil down to a too rich pre-mix, I think

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#1816661 - 10/16/22 03:20 AM Re: How to bypass pre's on my vs-2480 [Re: March]
C Jo Go Offline
EMERITUS ~ VS Roland
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Registered: 11/05/01
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We use the AE 7000 {RBUS} and a RME ADi 2 {SPDIF} converter into our system ..

Edited by C Jo Go (10/16/22 03:43 AM)
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#1816665 - 10/16/22 04:49 AM Re: How to bypass pre's on my vs-2480 [Re: C Jo Go]
gyorpb Offline
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I’m going to venture a guess, that the AE-7000 is exactly identical to the VS-2480, in terms of preamps and converters.
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#1816666 - 10/16/22 04:52 AM Re: How to bypass pre's on my vs-2480 [Re: gyorpb]
gyorpb Offline
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Strike that. Got my 7000’s mixed up.
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#1816689 - 10/16/22 03:49 PM Re: How to bypass pre's on my vs-2480 [Re: gyorpb]
C Jo Go Offline
EMERITUS ~ VS Roland
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THe 7000 is a digital I/O via the RBUS -- we use it for our effect boxes. Our rack preamps travel via the SPDIF and then we connect the optical > to a interface to the PC ....
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#1816762 - 10/16/22 08:20 PM Re: How to bypass pre's on my vs-2480 [Re: C Jo Go]
gre Offline
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Registered: 08/20/11
Posts: 141
Can you use spdif and optical at the same time? I read somewhere only one or the other can be used.
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#1816791 - 10/16/22 09:27 PM Re: How to bypass pre's on my vs-2480 [Re: gre]
C Jo Go Offline
EMERITUS ~ VS Roland
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Registered: 11/05/01
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NO >> One at a time -- We have to switch when tracking and then for master to our PC .. we have quick presets saved ~~in the Routing screen..

We use the CLOCK in the RME -very stable --


Edited by C Jo Go (10/16/22 09:54 PM)
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#1816868 - 10/17/22 07:39 AM Re: How to bypass pre's on my vs-2480 [Re: C Jo Go]
gyorpb Offline
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Registered: 05/11/19
Posts: 295
Yes and no. Both outputs can be used simultaneously, but only one input can be used (routed) at a time. Theoretically —and from a hardware standpoint— it should be possible to use both optical and coax S/P-DIF inputs simultaneously, provided everything conforms to the same clock signal (that is the key to everything). The VS simply doesn‘t allow it, however.
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#1816870 - 10/17/22 07:41 AM Re: How to bypass pre's on my vs-2480 [Re: C Jo Go]
gre Offline
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Registered: 08/20/11
Posts: 141
So on the spdif is it 8 tracks? Or limited to two. Will any da/ad convertor work with the 2480?
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#1816910 - 10/17/22 03:39 PM Re: How to bypass pre's on my vs-2480 [Re: gre]
michaelsteele Offline
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Registered: 12/21/03
Posts: 3152
spdif is 2-channel

Myke
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#1816940 - 10/17/22 04:48 PM Re: How to bypass pre's on my vs-2480 [Re: michaelsteele]
gre Offline
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Registered: 08/20/11
Posts: 141
Question. What would happen if I bypassed the dif-at and plugged say the ada8200 directly into the vs2480 optical? If a preamp has adat would it not work to just plug it straight in?
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#1816968 - 10/17/22 08:58 PM Re: How to bypass pre's on my vs-2480 [Re: gre]
gyorpb Offline
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Registered: 05/11/19
Posts: 295
The VS doesn’t have ADAT.
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#1816970 - 10/17/22 09:23 PM Re: How to bypass pre's on my vs-2480 [Re: gyorpb]
powermac Offline
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Registered: 02/21/16
Posts: 396
Loc: Houston, Tx
I could possibly help you decipher the muddy issue, but knowing the chain and settings your using would help a lot. While I haven't used my 2480 since moving to Clarrett and Reaper I recorded quite a few albums.

By the way, the 2480 pre's cannot be completely bypassed.

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#1816991 - 10/18/22 12:03 AM Re: How to bypass pre's on my vs-2480 [Re: gyorpb]
gre Offline
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Registered: 08/20/11
Posts: 141
Ahh so thats why I would need the dif-at.
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#1816992 - 10/18/22 12:05 AM Re: How to bypass pre's on my vs-2480 [Re: gre]
gre Offline
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Registered: 08/20/11
Posts: 141
So I'm in the clock screen on the 2480 trying to change to R-bus2 clock but when I scroll to it and hit enter its says "rbus unlock change to internal clock?" I hit enter again and it goes back to internal clock. What am I missing? On the roland site it says it will say "R-BUS 1 In Lock" after hitting enter but it says "R-BUS Unlock Change TO Internal Clock?".

Edited by gre (10/18/22 07:58 AM)

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#1817029 - 10/18/22 07:55 AM Re: How to bypass pre's on my vs-2480 [Re: gre]
gre Offline
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Registered: 08/20/11
Posts: 141
Everything is routed the right way, 44.1 set on both the 2480 and the preamp connected to the dif-at. Adat light is solid green. If someone could walk me through how to get this working I would appreciate it. Its probably one little thing.
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#1817096 - 10/18/22 04:45 PM Re: How to bypass pre's on my vs-2480 [Re: gre]
gre Offline
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Registered: 08/20/11
Posts: 141
Okay so by going to page 4 in utility's where it says r-bus I swtiched rbus 1 remote to on and it says dif-at instead of unknown. Everything is working but I still can't get the master clock to change, I get pops and clicks because of it. It just won't change to it, same thing as before I hit enter once it puts the check mark in the right box but says "R-BUS Unlock Change To Internal Clock?" and then has me press enter again with no other option.
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#1817142 - 10/18/22 07:09 PM Re: How to bypass pre's on my vs-2480 [Re: gre]
gyorpb Offline
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Registered: 05/11/19
Posts: 295
Why are you connecting to RBUS2? Are you using RBUS1 for something else?
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#1817145 - 10/18/22 07:11 PM Re: How to bypass pre's on my vs-2480 [Re: gyorpb]
gre Offline
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Registered: 08/20/11
Posts: 141
Its rbus1 now, I was just trying rbus2 as well but everything is rbus 1 now.

Edited by gre (10/18/22 08:56 PM)

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#1817236 - 10/19/22 01:07 AM Re: How to bypass pre's on my vs-2480 [Re: gre]
gre Offline
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Registered: 08/20/11
Posts: 141
Theres gotta be some simple setting that needs changed. Both adat preamps are communicating with the dif-at and the dif-at is communicating with the 2480. Can someone try something for me? Can you try to change your master clock to rbus 1 and tell me what it says? I know people have been through this but not many follow this forum any more and the 2480 is old gear so info is hard to come by.

Edited by gre (10/19/22 01:21 AM)

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#1817255 - 10/19/22 07:37 AM Re: How to bypass pre's on my vs-2480 [Re: gre]
gre Offline
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Registered: 08/20/11
Posts: 141
Do I need a word clock cable connected from the 2480 to the preamp?
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#1817262 - 10/19/22 11:06 AM Re: How to bypass pre's on my vs-2480 [Re: gre]
gyorpb Offline
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Registered: 05/11/19
Posts: 295
No, but it‘s worth a try.
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