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#1849182 - 05/16/23 08:16 PM Lip smack/pop click in vocal take
gre Offline
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Registered: 08/20/11
Posts: 145
So I recorded a great take but I smacked my lips with an annoying click sound. How could I edit that out seamlessly? I tried cutting it but then the sound disappears for a split second. I don't think I can get the same vibe recording it again so if anyone knows of a good way to edit things like this out I would appreciate it. I know pro tools etc have this little pencil they just draw a line with but we don't have that option. thanks again
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#1849186 - 05/16/23 08:52 PM Re: Lip smack/pop click in vocal take [Re: gre]
uptildawn Offline
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First thing I would suggest is to consider the context of the vocal track - is it part of a multitrack mix which will ultimately mask any inconsistencies in the noisefloor of that single track? Or is it a solo voice track meant to be heard by itself, or surrounded by very quiet tracks, or even occasionally exposed in an otherwise busy mix?

You might be able to minimize whatever efforts you need to make to mask uneven drops in the noisefloor of the track after removing the offending bits.

The other thing I might suggest would be to go ahead and remove those bits. Then, in an adjacent track record, or better, copy a segment of noisefloor from the original track. Lay that down alongside the original track, either in small bits near the places where there are edits, or simply copy it the whole length of the original take.

You can then (with or without automating the noise track) carefully blend it in under the original take and bounce the pair to a new composite vocal track.

Hope this helps.


Edited by uptildawn (05/16/23 08:54 PM)
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#1849188 - 05/16/23 09:05 PM Re: Lip smack/pop click in vocal take [Re: uptildawn]
gre Offline
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Registered: 08/20/11
Posts: 145
I recorded acoustic guitar at the same time as vocals. I then added everything else. If I would have done the vocals separate it would be a little easier but then the vibe isn't the same.

By 'bits' you mean cutting that portion of the track out right?

So I think you are suggesting using a different part of the track that is similar and blending them? So I wouldn't paste a small bit in the original track I would just bring it up underneath the original?

Edit: Its right at the beginning of playing a chord.


Edited by gre (05/16/23 09:40 PM)

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#1849190 - 05/16/23 09:39 PM Re: Lip smack/pop click in vocal take [Re: gre]
uptildawn Offline
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Quote: So I think you are suggesting using a different part of the track that is similar and blending them? So I wouldn't paste a small bit in the original track I would just bring it up underneath the original? end quote

Yes, that's what I was thinking. However now that you've elaborated and said there's both guitar and vocal on the track, I imagine you'd be hard pressed to find those clicks you want to remove would not also contain some guitar and chopping that up would probably not be an option.

There's some more surgical editing that can be done on a track like this that could possibly produce great results - such as the tools offered in software programs like Izotope RX. I have used RX extensively in the past few years to "fix" all sorts of tracks and have a lot of faith in the possibilities.

If you're in need and would like some help, send me a PM and we can figure out what to do.
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#1849191 - 05/16/23 09:42 PM Re: Lip smack/pop click in vocal take [Re: uptildawn]
gre Offline
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Registered: 08/20/11
Posts: 145
Cool man I'll try your suggestion and if I can't get it right I will PM you. I appreciate it.
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#1849314 - 05/17/23 06:23 PM Re: Lip smack/pop click in vocal take [Re: gre]
March Offline
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Registered: 04/26/99
Posts: 2069
Loc: IA
Good advice! So the vocals and the guitar are on he same track, right? Here's what I would do

First, identify he "blips" on that track I am not in the front of the machine right now, but it may be easily done by he "scrubbing" function on the track in question while you can easily see he spike on the LCD screen. You can drop markers right before and after the "blip" and then erase that portion. Once you get rid of he "blips", make a copy of the track. Additional surgery will be needed to get rid of all the passages except for the guitar phrases that contain the vocals with the blips (that have now been erased) Then you can offset the copy of the second track and bring it forward to cover he gaps. Mix the two according to taste

The VS has a function that I haven't been using very frequently, but did use in he past. It's the EXPAND function which basically takes a phrase and stretches it between two new markers (or shrinks it) without changing the pitch. You might want to experiment with that, too. Once you get rid of the 'blips', the "gaps" should be small (under one second) so stretching the guitar phrase to cover the gap would be unnoticeable, I would guess

Hope this helps

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#1849326 - 05/17/23 09:22 PM Re: Lip smack/pop click in vocal take [Re: March]
gre Offline
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Registered: 08/20/11
Posts: 145
Cool man. I tired it but maybe I'm doing something wrong, it either sounds slow or scratchy. Any advice?
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#1849337 - 05/18/23 02:26 AM Re: Lip smack/pop click in vocal take [Re: gre]
uptildawn Offline
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I'd be real interested to find out if/how the stretch trick works out for you, if you try that with any success.....
My only experience with stretching audio on a VS has been with a 1680 and the results were far from stunning or unnoticeable (nothing against March's suggestion)..... hopefully Roland made significant advances in the feature by the 2480.

On the other hand, I make extensive use of similar features in pc daw software all the time and it can be a lifesaver!

I've been doing far less of the chop-n-stretch the last couple of years, though, since learning how brilliantly forensic repair software like RX can handle all sorts of unwanted sounds on a track and often with far less effort.


Edited by uptildawn (05/18/23 02:26 AM)
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#1849355 - 05/18/23 04:57 AM Re: Lip smack/pop click in vocal take [Re: uptildawn]
gre Offline
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Registered: 08/20/11
Posts: 145
So basically with that approach I would download the RX software on my PC and then export the wav file from the 2480, do the de click and then put it back on the 2480? Does it retain the 24bit rate etc? I know some programs have different settings that need changed or don't have certain options.
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#1849364 - 05/18/23 08:42 AM Re: Lip smack/pop click in vocal take [Re: gre]
March Offline
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Registered: 04/26/99
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Well, that's why I was suggesting an additional surgical procedure to divide the original into shorter PHRASES. If you expand a shorter phrase by only one second, that doesn't seem likely to result in a scratchy or slower one. But I don' know. I am no i n front of he machine right now. If you say so...

Another option is to simply fill out the gaps manually with a one second patch--taken from the beginning of a guitar chord where there are no vocals. You will probably have o perform the operation half a dozen times at the most, right? That's how often you might have smacked your lips

Uptildawn is right. On the 1680, the EXPAND function sucked. It got better on the 2480. But probably the separate RX software is better still. I would personally prefer to do everything on the VS rather than worry about conversion rates. But it's nice to know that you have options.

Whatever works for you

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#1849378 - 05/18/23 02:43 PM Re: Lip smack/pop click in vocal take [Re: gre]
uptildawn Offline
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 Originally Posted By: gre
So basically with that approach I would download the RX software on my PC and then export the wav file from the 2480, do the de click and then put it back on the 2480? Does it retain the 24bit rate etc? I know some programs have different settings that need changed or don't have certain options.


That's the procedure, right.
Conversion of sample and bit rate would not be an issue, if you pay attention not to change it. You want to export the track to and from the VS. DO NOT burn it as an audio track (which WOULD convert it to 44.1k/16 bit, if you did).

The RX program (the one I know best) should import the track as is. If you simply re-save, or overwrite/save the file after editing, it will also not change it. If you choose to export it when saving, it will give you options for how you want it saved. Of course, if you're VS exported track is on a cd-r then RX can't overwrite it and must save it to the pc's hard drive.

Simply saving/overwriting is the most straightforward, but it's always best practice to make a copy of the original track before editing, just to be on the safe side - although you'll still have the original on the 2480, too, right? If your VS track is on cd-r, then your best bet is to make a copy of it to the pc and then use that to edit in RX. You'll have to burn the edited file back to cd-r in order to import it back to the 2480 and you'd do that with any burning software as a data disc.

All this might be a mute point, if you can export and import the track by way of USB...... can the 2480 do this? I don't recall at the moment.

Best to spot de-click (in RX) just a small area around the noises you want to remove, so that you avoid removing transients of the guitar sounds you may want to keep. In reality though, RX has built-in safeguards, such as the ability to compare the proposed treatment against the original, or to render (or compare) just the sound to be removed, or even just the ability to undo edits before saving(there's also an edit history list). I don't think you can undo edits after saving, however, like we're used to doing in the VS - but the VS is saving an entire session, with all its parameter setting, automation, etc. and not just edits.



Edited by uptildawn (05/18/23 03:14 PM)
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#1849379 - 05/18/23 02:55 PM Re: Lip smack/pop click in vocal take [Re: March]
uptildawn Offline
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Registered: 12/15/01
Posts: 9108
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 Originally Posted By: March
Another option is to simply fill out the gaps manually with a one second patch--taken from the beginning of a guitar chord where there are no vocals. You will probably have o perform the operation half a dozen times at the most, right? That's how often you might have smacked your lips

Uptildawn is right. On the 1680, the EXPAND function sucked. It got better on the 2480. But probably the separate RX software is better still. I would personally prefer to do everything on the VS rather than worry about conversion rates. But it's nice to know that you have options.

Whatever works for you


I also totally would rather avoid the hassles of exporting/importing, if for no other reason than the time factor. And your (and my own) suggestions about how to erase the offending bits and replace them with sound to fill the gaps are definitely the way to get it done inside the VS.

I've just become so comfortable with how stress-free pc software has made editing, compared to the VS (granted, I know the 1680 best of all the VS machines, but became masterful at editing on it, if I do say so myself), that it's become a real timesaver for me and I don't hesitate to make use of it anymore.
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#1849380 - 05/18/23 03:06 PM Re: Lip smack/pop click in vocal take [Re: uptildawn]
uptildawn Offline
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Another big issue I run up against when doing surgical edits on the 1680 (and I believe is a limitation of all VS models), is the inability of the machine to audibly play back bits of audio less than 1/2 second (500ms), even though it's possible to create such bits. This becomes a real issue when attempting to replace a single note, or syllable, for instance.
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#1849472 - 05/19/23 03:05 AM Re: Lip smack/pop click in vocal take [Re: gre]
FalconEddy Offline
Retired Mastering Marvel
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Registered: 10/16/01
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gre,

I'm highly familiar with those little audio imperfections that want to make us just scream at times. GAWD!

One time, MANY years ago, I received a 'finished' mix of Van Halen's sixth album, 1984. it was done by studios engineers Ken Deane and Donn Landee, and it was a friggin' disaster.

They spent absolutely NO TIME trimming out all of the bullsh!t that didn't belong in there, which to a pair of ears that could easily pick up on those sounds, was appalling.

Eddie was CONSTANTLY effing around with his volume/tone knobs and switches in between takes, and you could hear very quiet muffled whispers & throat clearing every once in a while. WTF!!!

They shouldn't even have had that channel unmuted going into the board at that point for his guitar. C'mon guys. Ken & Donn MUST have had track sheets for what the band was working on.

THAT's just being incredibly lazy and totally unprofessional.

The mastering ended up going to Bernie Grundman Mastering in Hollywood (not me), and was given to their brand new hire, Chris Bellman, that did a great job with what he was given.

Anyway, if those lip smacks are quiet enough, you could try re-recording the track to another, and experimenting with threshold & gating to remove them (provided they're not too loud in comparison to the rest of the track.)

Just a thought for you.

. . Falcon
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#1849626 - 05/19/23 10:33 PM Re: Lip smack/pop click in vocal take [Re: FalconEddy]
gre Offline
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Registered: 08/20/11
Posts: 145
Cool man thanks for the story. I will give that a shot as well, that way I won't have to burn, upload, edit on pc, burn again, upload back to 2480 (which did turn out good results).
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#1849627 - 05/19/23 10:35 PM Re: Lip smack/pop click in vocal take [Re: uptildawn]
gre Offline
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Registered: 08/20/11
Posts: 145
I downloaded audacity and did a free trial with the rx de click. It actually worked pretty well. It is tedious but I don't think I could have gotten better results on the 2480 and if so it would have taken much longer.
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#1849649 - 05/20/23 01:28 AM Re: Lip smack/pop click in vocal take [Re: gre]
calypso Offline
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Registered: 07/22/05
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Loc: mid-Missouri
there is some amazing software out there - thanks for the info!
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#1849747 - 05/21/23 04:54 AM Re: Lip smack/pop click in vocal take [Re: calypso]
gre Offline
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Registered: 08/20/11
Posts: 145
Yeah things have come a long way. I do think the majority of things can be done on the 2480 but this situation it was just better. I also think by us being limited with these machines forces us to be more creative and not get too caught up in decisions and plugins. It forces us to commit which speeds up the process and makes us get good with what we have.
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#1850573 - 05/26/23 03:41 AM Re: Lip smack/pop click in vocal take [Re: gre]
YYZ Offline
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Registered: 03/28/04
Posts: 528
Loc: ARIZONA
Easiest as someone mentioned is to copy a part from another section within the song and paste.

Also if you have a computer you can download the free version of Pro Tools and simply draw the pop out. I do it all the time, amazing tools. Then import back into the VS.


Edited by YYZ (05/26/23 04:17 AM)
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#1851233 - 05/31/23 07:18 PM Re: Lip smack/pop click in vocal take [Re: YYZ]
oneammonday Offline
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Registered: 07/05/07
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Why didn't you just re-record it? You could've been done on the 17th. But, then again, I wouldn't have had any posts to read. Glad you sorted it out, hope it sounds cool.
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