#1908551 - 06/19/24 11:17 PM
AUTOMIX GLITCHES
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Furry
Planeteer
Registered: 06/20/23
Posts: 117
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AUTOMIX: I am finding that using both "REALTIME" AND "SNAPSHOT" automix techniques may have some major glitches, or so it seems. I assumed that after entering a snapshot ... punching in a real time automation section would over ride the snapshot at that point. Sometimes it does, sometimes it doesn't ... and I'm' seeing a return to snapshot position when I don't want it. Not very clearly stated by me. Anybody have anything to say on this?
MY METHOD OF CHOICE: Initially, I figured I'd make a RealTime automix pass from beginning to end ... then go back and drop in some markers where I needed to do some tweaking and use SNAPSHOT adjustments to cure them. I'M BEGINNING to wonder if can even use that approach. One of you mentioned "step" recording in automix. I figure that means SNAPSHOT only. A bunch of them. Beginning to end. Please respond as my frustration is increasing.
ALTERNATE METHOD OF CHOICE: Using RealTime Automix ONLY, meaning beginning to end, roll back for tweaks, but do them with with RealTime automix instead of snapshots. with AFTER PUNCH set to RETURN it may be the last work around I can think of. No snapshots at all. Hope somebody out there remembers and is still watching for new posts here. Thanks.. -Furry-
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#1908591 - 06/20/24 02:03 AM
Re: AUTOMIX GLITCHES
[Re: Furry]
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uptildawn
Planeteer
Registered: 12/15/01
Posts: 9108
Loc: on land
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I'm pretty certain that no automix settings, realtime, or snapshot, are overwritten without moving specifically to a marker position and adjusting it (or deleting it, as the case may be). It may often be necessary to go to the automix "micro adjustments" screen (for lack of the correct terminology and my failing memory) in order to make adjustments. At any rate, there is no auto-overwrite. Making another pass simply writes more markers.
Looking through the 1680 manual pdf version and one I've made "copyable" with some free pdf program I found once - I've noticed an exception of sorts where overwriting is concerned - it's minor, but worth noting the following:
Quote -
”" If a marker already exists within 0.1 seconds before the
time location where you are attempting to place a new
[marker (i.e., the current -time), the Snapshot is recorded at
the earlier marker. A marker will not be newly assigned. If
a marker already exists within 0.1 seconds after the time
location at which you are attempting to place a new marker
(i.e., the current time), the Snapshot is recorded at the
later marker. End Quote (pg 157).
Gradation is the method I couldn't recall before that is used to smoothly connect/transition from one step marker to another (good for gradual fader adjustments, pan sweeps, etc.). Read the following instructions -
Quote -
This creates an auto mix that smoothly connects
Snapshots recorded in two adjacent markers. This
method is called Gradation. N
For example, this is convenient when you wish to
specify the length of a fade»-in or fade-out.
M O Follow the operation as described in “Recording
the Mixer Settings, Method 1,” record a Snapshot
with the time locations at which you want
Gradation to begin and end. C
2. Confirm that Auto Mix mode is on.
3. Select the channels which you want to record
t using Auto Mix. While pressing [AUTOMIX], so
that the button indicators to blink, press the input]
channel or track channel SELECT button or the
Master Block [EDIT] button. A
Q. Hold down [SCENE] and press [PREVIOUS] or
[NEXT].
5. A confirmation message appears on the screen.
Press [YES].
A new mark point is automatically added between the
two mark points, and Gradation is executed. Press
NO if you wish to cancel Gradation.
End Quote -
There's much more that follows about automix functions. I'd suggest reading up and experimenting with each suggested method and any variations and/or hints. I learned about it that way and managed to become quite proficient and creative after awhile. I've forgotten so much now, because it's been more than 10 year since I actively used the 1680 for editing and mixing. It also has lent itself to my confusing terminology between the VS and 2-3 major software programs I use almost daily (where there's also no consistency in methods or terminologies for many key editing processes).
Hope this helps you find a method that works for you.
I see there's many typos in my pasted quotes - So Sorry! - Best to read your copy... Also, mine is for the 1680, which may be slightly different in your VS.
Edited by uptildawn (06/20/24 02:08 AM)
_________________________
uptildawn
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#1908617 - 06/20/24 03:09 AM
Re: AUTOMIX GLITCHES
[Re: uptildawn]
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Furry
Planeteer
Registered: 06/20/23
Posts: 117
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Ah, you're still there/here. I appreciate it.
A lot of info in what you posted. I glazed over a tad and my confusion in reading your post is in the terminology MARKER. Within 0.1 seconds, I think. My understanding of gradation is that in a punch during a busy passage of notes ... it might make the transition smoother. Less jerky. But that is the way I've viewed that info on how close another marker is. Figured it meant to say "don't try placing a second marker closer than 0.1 seconds next to another". That made sense to me, but in my confusion I don't really understand what you're saying. The MARKER is just being used to quickly find the basic spot you want to do the editing in ... or so I think. Figured I could drop the marker in on the fly ... then later go back to it and find the ACTUAL real spot I want to edit automix data and place a new marker there. Am I getting argumentative? I hope not. Maybe I should stop there and let you respond again, if you think you can get through to my dumb ass. Your turn. Thanks. -Furry-
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#1908620 - 06/20/24 03:31 AM
Re: AUTOMIX GLITCHES
[Re: Furry]
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uptildawn
Planeteer
Registered: 12/15/01
Posts: 9108
Loc: on land
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I don't know.............
Please understand that much of that last reply consists of two quotes from the manual - not my words, but Roland's.
If in doubt, read it for yourself in your own VS's manual and experiment many times over. You will eventually understand how to make automix work for your needs.
Yes, you can drop markers in on the fly and edit them later - both their timeline position (right down to the shortest increment of time the VS allows) and their value. It may require using the micro adjustment page - whatever that's called.
That's all I got, I'm afraid. Hope you get it figured out...
_________________________
uptildawn
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#1908623 - 06/20/24 03:41 AM
Re: AUTOMIX GLITCHES
[Re: uptildawn]
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Furry
Planeteer
Registered: 06/20/23
Posts: 117
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All you got? Give yourself a break. I appreciate the heck out of it. I'll turn all that over a few times in my head. You have a great night. -Furry-
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#1908631 - 06/20/24 05:51 AM
Re: AUTOMIX GLITCHES
[Re: Furry]
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Furry
Planeteer
Registered: 06/20/23
Posts: 117
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It's starting to come into view what you meant when you said this:
" At any rate, there is no auto-overwrite. Making another pass simply writes more markers."
I get the point and you've addressed the very essence of what I needed to understand. I have gone to a point where the problem was (and although I had not placed a marker there) ... by slowly working with the clock I got to where the "apparent strange residue of a snapshot" was located. Once there I was able to remove it, if I remember correctly. A verification of what you just told me. Thanks. -Furry-
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#1908662 - 06/20/24 03:09 PM
Re: AUTOMIX GLITCHES
[Re: Furry]
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uptildawn
Planeteer
Registered: 12/15/01
Posts: 9108
Loc: on land
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I get it.
That's happened to me before. Especially in a dense automix session.
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uptildawn
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#1910319 - 06/28/24 07:13 PM
Re: AUTOMIX GLITCHES
[Re: uptildawn]
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Furry
Planeteer
Registered: 06/20/23
Posts: 117
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I've since realized that when you refer to "marker" you are NOT referring to the little yellow TAP MARKERS used for navigating by "previous" and "next". You are referring to AUTOMIX "markers". I had never seen or heard it referred to in that manner. I finally understand what you are saying and have spent some time studying and playing with the automix feature. Am discovering that realtime automix isn't a continuous flow of automix writing like I thought it was. Had to understand the basis that automix follows the LAST command before it. I'm almost clear now on what that entails. Experimenting with a few variables. For now it looks like mixing RT (realtime) and SN (snapshot) methods CAN be achieved, but I'd better pay attention as there are clusters that can happen. For now I'm thinking that if I go with the RT method on the initial automix ... when I want to go to the section I feel needs an update as a SN, ... the micro edit screen offers an easy way using IN, OUT region editing to remove the RT stuff between those two points. This takes the iffiness out of inserting a new SN. Clear as mud, I know ... but I think you're guided me in the right direction. Many thanks.
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#1910395 - 06/28/24 11:30 PM
Re: AUTOMIX GLITCHES
[Re: Furry]
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uptildawn
Planeteer
Registered: 12/15/01
Posts: 9108
Loc: on land
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I'm glad I've been able to help.
The screen can sure get cluttered with the assortment of markers - and as useful as they are, sometimes it gets crazy. The micro screen really help (although I found it tedious in the 1680).
At least it sounds like you've got color-coded markers.
The 1680/1880 only had one color for everything in the display.
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uptildawn
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#1910972 - 07/01/24 06:24 AM
Re: AUTOMIX GLITCHES
[Re: uptildawn]
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Furry
Planeteer
Registered: 06/20/23
Posts: 117
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Guess I'm still not being clear. The automix DATA seems to be VISUALLY in terms of "low to higher" vertical bars determined by the "number" assigned to the parameter. (lets say we're referencing LEVEL) ... a higher vertical bar would be a higher parameter # of level. Not quite sure how the numbering system works for the PAN parameter, but I would suspect it's still a range of numbers associated with the pan positions L63 to R63 ... maybe 1 thru 126. .
So I guess you ARE talking about something other than AUTOMIX DATA when you say
"Markers". Honestly it's okay if you want to just let it go as I'm not the sharpest pencil in the box, anyway. I'm just glad you're here. As always: Thanks. -Furry-
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#1911147 - 07/01/24 08:29 PM
Re: AUTOMIX GLITCHES
[Re: Furry]
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uptildawn
Planeteer
Registered: 12/15/01
Posts: 9108
Loc: on land
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The 1680 and 2000 must have dramatically different ways of showing things - automix adjustments being one, for sure.
The 1680 displays all automix points as tap markers, but with a tiny A on the monochrome backlit display (no vga output, or anything fancy). In fact, automix, time-related, or anything that requires a visual timeline indicator are all indicated with little "Tap Markers"..... It gets very messy and there's no filters of any kind, except in the micro edits screen.
No biggie, but so you know - YES, when I say "markers", I mean automix data/timeline entries, in this discussion. "Tap Markers" are how automix data entries are displayed.
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uptildawn
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#1911727 - 07/03/24 09:21 PM
Re: AUTOMIX GLITCHES
[Re: uptildawn]
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Furry
Planeteer
Registered: 06/20/23
Posts: 117
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Uptildawn: I got it. Plus I keep forgetting that the 1680 had no VGA monitor ... and all my references are to THAT. Me bad. After all the loving hours I put into my 1680 20 years ago ... since I've got the VS2000 with the VGA ... I rarely look back. Of course it would look different on a 1680. LCD not VGA. Damn, I can be so lame some time. Thanks again. -Furry-
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#1921043 - 08/09/24 10:00 PM
Re: AUTOMIX GLITCHES
[Re: uptildawn]
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Furry
Planeteer
Registered: 06/20/23
Posts: 117
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I've just confirmed that, indeed ... automix data IS over written when using Real Time Record of automix. One prerequisite is to note you HAVE to move the fader at least once for any Real Time Auomix data to be written. Move it once and leave it recording ... it over writes anything on that track, even after you stopped moving the fader ... as long as you let it keep recording automix. Automix Edit screen the shows the fader move you made ... then nothing, which means the fader setting is still the active setting. You can see it when expanding the Home Screen tracks and watching the fader level. I should add that I did this with KEEP selected in the AFTER PUNCH OUT parameter in the automix setup screen, and then did it with RETURN selected. Both ways over wrote previous automix data.
Edited by Furry (08/09/24 10:32 PM)
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#1921050 - 08/09/24 10:21 PM
Re: AUTOMIX GLITCHES
[Re: Furry]
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uptildawn
Planeteer
Registered: 12/15/01
Posts: 9108
Loc: on land
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That's handy.
I don't recall the 1680 doing that. But then, I hardly every wrote real time automation.
Step automation was far less cluttered and easier to edit afterwards - given the display the 1680 has. I did often use gradation though (automating pans and fades that needed to be smooth/steady). I recall cherry picking markers to adjust in those sweeps sometimes.
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uptildawn
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#1921054 - 08/09/24 10:36 PM
Re: AUTOMIX GLITCHES
[Re: uptildawn]
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Furry
Planeteer
Registered: 06/20/23
Posts: 117
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Mr. Dawn: I just updated the last post I made. Good to know you're still there/here. INDEED step editing is far simpler and thus attractive as an approach. Thanks for the comeback. I'm homing in on this automix stuff. Next on my agenda: How to erase just one tracks automix data. Hopefully I'll stumble over it soon. I first saved my automix to a template and am sure glad I did because ERASE erased it all. Of course I was able to LOAD it back, but what if I hadn't saved it? Grrrrr. Glad I did. Any thoughts on deleting or erasing just one tracks automix data (beginning to end) on the VS2000? I tried it once, but it deleted audio. I quickly used UNDO to retrieve it.
CORRECTION: My dumb ass. It did NOT delete any audio. I was working with a practice project JUST FOR TESTING OUT SOME AUTOMIX FUNCTIONS. I had never put ANY audio on there. Again, I'm just brain dead at times. I went back and worked in the VS2000 Automix Edit screen, selected the track ... entered both IN and OUT places, then selected MARK (which highleted the automix data I wanted erased. Could have just as easily been beginning to end of song) and then erased it. No biggie. I just freaked out and though I had lost audio. Sorry for leading anybody down the wrong path.
Edited by Furry (08/09/24 11:21 PM)
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