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#1917634 - 07/27/24 12:07 AM SO so much more to go ....
C Jo Go C Jo Go EMERITUS ~ VS Roland Loquacious Planeteer Registered: 11/05/01 Posts: 38176 Loc: carmel valley,ca	Edited by C Jo Go (08/07/24 09:22 PM) _________________________ You got to know more ...than you know ( ͡~ ͜ʖ ͡° )
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#1917638 - 07/27/24 12:55 AM Re: Ruff Mixes but no Latency [Re: C Jo Go]
TAPKAE TAPKAE The Artist Presently Known As Ed Planeteer Registered: 02/28/02 Posts: 3018 Loc: Trumplandia Acres, Shithole US...	What’s the deal with all your posts declaring no latency? _________________________ The Artist Presently Known As Ed _ Need a second opinion or input on your recording? Troubleshooting a mix? Get in touch for a 1:1 Discord chat! https://discord.gg/DCDjZUfb2E
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#1917647 - 07/27/24 02:18 AM Re: Ruff Mixes but no Latency [Re: TAPKAE]
C Jo Go C Jo Go EMERITUS ~ VS Roland Loquacious Planeteer Registered: 11/05/01 Posts: 38176 Loc: carmel valley,ca	Originally Posted By: TAPKAE What’s the deal with all your posts declaring no latency? Guess when you had several 100 hits on the subject --- you want others to know that their support was well welcomed >> and the results are proof .. $;\)$ _________________________ You got to know more ...than you know ( ͡~ ͜ʖ ͡° )
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#1917687 - 07/27/24 07:00 AM Re: Ruff Mixes but no Latency [Re: C Jo Go]
motown59 motown59 Planeteer/Artist # 238 Planeteer Registered: 03/01/04 Posts: 18227 Loc: California	The tones feel pretty good. But… The beginning was chopped of or not cleaned up. It starts with some sound already The timing/groove was pretty poor between drums and guitar. Some beats are way off each other. No amount of mixing will fix that. After the breakdown the drums vs guitar &bass got pretty off. Many of the non talked singing were pretty pitchy, flat. What’s with the end ? _________________________ kel "I love what you guys are trying to do up there" ...from an audience member at one of my gigs. Gear: Fender Medium pick
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#1917722 - 07/27/24 01:33 PM Re: Ruff Mixes but no Latency [Re: motown59]
flatcat flatcat Loquacious Planeteer Registered: 07/11/01 Posts: 30302 Loc: Westborough, MA, USA	You keep saying that word. I do not think it means what you think it means. $\:D$ I'm not sure you understand the concept of latency. So far as I understand it, latency basically means "delay". In other words, it takes time to convert sound into 1s and 0s to be tracked in the digital domain, and then to be returned to audio from the 1s and 0s. You can control this by changing the setting on your interface. Lower makes the delay less noticeable. However, if your system is not powerful enough, very low settings can cause issues. You need to experiment and see what works best for your system. Most interfaces nowadays have a way to monitor from the interface, which makes the issue of latency moot - you aren't listening to the recorded track you're working on after it's been converted, you're listening to it as it's being recorded, before it is converted to 1s and 0s. DAWs compensate for all that so everything plays at the same time. So the only time when latency can be an issue (in my experience - others feel free to chime in) is if you're recording a track and you are monitoring from the DAW. To avoid that, just monitor from your interface. If it's a singer and they want some reverb or something, you can use an outboard effect with it, or you can try mixing in some reverb from the DAW without including any of the track you're actually recording. There is not going to be latency, probably, in finished products. That's really not how it works. _________________________ The internet, and the whole technology sector on which it floats, feels like a giant organ for bullshittery—for upscaling human access to speech and for amplifying lies. - Ian Bogost Professor Truth T. Sweetness says,"Mind your manners!"
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#1917733 - 07/27/24 02:29 PM Re: Ruff Mixes but no Latency [Re: motown59]
C Jo Go C Jo Go EMERITUS ~ VS Roland Loquacious Planeteer Registered: 11/05/01 Posts: 38176 Loc: carmel valley,ca	Originally Posted By: motown59 The tones feel pretty good. But… The beginning was chopped of or not cleaned up. It starts with some sound already The timing/groove was pretty poor between drums and guitar. Some beats are way off each other. No amount of mixing will fix that. After the breakdown the drums vs guitar &bass got pretty off. Many of the non talked singing were pretty pitchy, flat. What’s with the end ? Hey KEl -- Like I said RUFF -- Will fade and cleanup the ends >> I just played some drums after everyone left >> This guy plays mainly solo gigs -- not use to perfect timing to allow a post drummer ...Lives in his van & busks. Has hired me to just "capture" his songs >> not distributing --- AND there is always a time factor when the clock is running -- especially paying a bass player & the studio @ the session. Will load up a cleaner mix ++ when funds allow Just was loading up to show the latency prob was not a factor anymore... Always appreciate the listenin' & scrutiny... $;\)$ _________________________ You got to know more ...than you know ( ͡~ ͜ʖ ͡° )
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#1917737 - 07/27/24 02:36 PM Re: Ruff Mixes but no Latency [Re: flatcat]
C Jo Go C Jo Go EMERITUS ~ VS Roland Loquacious Planeteer Registered: 11/05/01 Posts: 38176 Loc: carmel valley,ca	Originally Posted By: flatcat You keep saying that word. I do not think it means what you think it means. $\:D$ There is not going to be latency, probably, in finished products. That's really not how it works. GUess for all my DAW years -- never had latency enter in my recordings --- this is my first dance with the delay > Somehow the ROland just worked from the factory ... So, I never adjusted any settings with respect to the 1024 setting from my REAPER factory numbers ...now @ 128/256 _________________________ You got to know more ...than you know ( ͡~ ͜ʖ ͡° )
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#1917767 - 07/27/24 03:20 PM Re: Ruff Mixes but no Latency [Re: C Jo Go]
C Jo Go C Jo Go EMERITUS ~ VS Roland Loquacious Planeteer Registered: 11/05/01 Posts: 38176 Loc: carmel valley,ca	We tracked 4 songs in 4 hours - including the bassist ( who always charts every song for my clients * well before stepping a foot in the studio ) THe drums were just a after thought :: to see just how far from tight the songs are off.. _________________________ You got to know more ...than you know ( ͡~ ͜ʖ ͡° )
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#1917779 - 07/27/24 03:36 PM Re: Ruff Mixes but no Latency [Re: C Jo Go]
motown59 motown59 Planeteer/Artist # 238 Planeteer Registered: 03/01/04 Posts: 18227 Loc: California	You’re creating a new definition of “Rough mixes”. Understood that you love putting on drums afterwards. I think you’ve added to “far off from tight” however. There’s a point where boasting about how quickly things were done is no longer an excuse for poor production. _________________________ kel "I love what you guys are trying to do up there" ...from an audience member at one of my gigs. Gear: Fender Medium pick
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#1917788 - 07/27/24 03:48 PM Re: Ruff Mixes but no Latency [Re: motown59]
flatcat flatcat Loquacious Planeteer Registered: 07/11/01 Posts: 30302 Loc: Westborough, MA, USA	Well, I mean, if you recorded audio of the drums instead of MIDI, you could convert them to MIDI easily enough in REAPER. Then you could create a tempo map of the song and move the drum MIDI to make it sound natural. Then you could edit the bass track to tighten it up. It's kind-of a bunch of work, but this is the big advantage of using a DAW. There's no way to effectively do that with a 2480. It's pretty straightforward with REAPER though. I'm listening to it now ... well. That's pretty messy. You could fix it but it would take a lot of time. Everything on that recording is fighting with everything else in terms of timing, but I've fixed worse. The problem with bending it into something that sounds great and natural is that people begin to believe that's what they really sound like, not that it was totally created by a patient engineer who wants to make an acceptable sounding "ideal" version of their song(s). Don't ask me how I know. But I mean .. sure. That's totally fixable. Edited by flatcat (07/27/24 03:49 PM) _________________________ The internet, and the whole technology sector on which it floats, feels like a giant organ for bullshittery—for upscaling human access to speech and for amplifying lies. - Ian Bogost Professor Truth T. Sweetness says,"Mind your manners!"
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#1917808 - 07/27/24 04:07 PM Re: Ruff Mixes but no Latency [Re: flatcat]
Xenophile Xenophile Planeteer Registered: 09/27/00 Posts: 19402 Loc: Sacramento, CA, USA	Originally Posted By: flatcat You keep saying that word. I do not think it means what you think it means. $\:D$ I’m quite sure that C Jo is confused about what “latency” means. Flatcat described it pretty well. In my experience, it is only a factor during the tracking/overdubbing phase, and then only if the artist is monitoring the signal after plug-in effects have been applied. You should be using “hardware monitoring” (Flatcat called that “monitoring from the interface”) whenever possible during tracking, and latency will not be a factor. Latency has little or nothing to do with the mixing process, and absolutely nothing to do with importing tracks from another DAW. _________________________ "Bobby, I'm sorry you got a head like a potato. I really am."
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#1917811 - 07/27/24 04:10 PM Re: Ruff Mixes but no Latency [Re: Xenophile]
Xenophile Xenophile Planeteer Registered: 09/27/00 Posts: 19402 Loc: Sacramento, CA, USA	And why do you guys always shout “REAPER” or “LOGIC” in all caps? They’re not acronyms. Just takes longer to type, IMO. _________________________ "Bobby, I'm sorry you got a head like a potato. I really am."
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#1917812 - 07/27/24 04:12 PM Re: Ruff Mixes but no Latency [Re: Xenophile]
flatcat flatcat Loquacious Planeteer Registered: 07/11/01 Posts: 30302 Loc: Westborough, MA, USA	Actually, REAPER is an acronym. It stands for Rapid Environment for Audio Production, Engineering, and Recording. _________________________ The internet, and the whole technology sector on which it floats, feels like a giant organ for bullshittery—for upscaling human access to speech and for amplifying lies. - Ian Bogost Professor Truth T. Sweetness says,"Mind your manners!"
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#1917815 - 07/27/24 04:16 PM Re: Ruff Mixes but no Latency [Re: Xenophile]
TAPKAE TAPKAE The Artist Presently Known As Ed Planeteer Registered: 02/28/02 Posts: 3018 Loc: Trumplandia Acres, Shithole US...	This is not even a mix. Not even the sound of a performance, nor the attempt to apporoximate one to trick the listener. Geeze. Time to spend more time with the family. Fiddling with studio efforts isn't time well spent now. _________________________ The Artist Presently Known As Ed _ Need a second opinion or input on your recording? Troubleshooting a mix? Get in touch for a 1:1 Discord chat! https://discord.gg/DCDjZUfb2E
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#1917852 - 07/27/24 05:09 PM Re: Ruff Mixes but no Latency [Re: flatcat]
Xenophile Xenophile Planeteer Registered: 09/27/00 Posts: 19402 Loc: Sacramento, CA, USA	Originally Posted By: flatcat Actually, REAPER is an acronym. It stands for Rapid Environment for Audio Production, Engineering, and Recording. In my best Johnny Carson voice, “I did not know that!” _________________________ "Bobby, I'm sorry you got a head like a potato. I really am."
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#1917871 - 07/27/24 05:31 PM Re: Ruff Mixes but no Latency [Re: Xenophile]
ulank ulank Forum Person Planeteer Registered: 02/03/08 Posts: 20491 Loc: Chicago, IL	And LOGIC stands for Latency Only Gets In CJo’s (way). _________________________ “This is no place for vacation.”
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#1917897 - 07/27/24 07:37 PM Re: Ruff Mixes but no Latency [Re: Xenophile]
C Jo Go C Jo Go EMERITUS ~ VS Roland Loquacious Planeteer Registered: 11/05/01 Posts: 38176 Loc: carmel valley,ca	Originally Posted By: Xenophile Originally Posted By: flatcat You keep saying that word. I do not think it means what you think it means. $\:D$ I’m quite sure that C Jo is confused about what “latency” means. It just came into my world :: in the last few months ...I know now $;\)$ _________________________ You got to know more ...than you know ( ͡~ ͜ʖ ͡° )
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#1917899 - 07/27/24 07:48 PM Re: Ruff Mixes but no Latency [Re: motown59]
C Jo Go C Jo Go EMERITUS ~ VS Roland Loquacious Planeteer Registered: 11/05/01 Posts: 38176 Loc: carmel valley,ca	Originally Posted By: motown59 You’re creating a new definition of “Rough mixes”. Understood that you love putting on drums afterwards. I think you’ve added to “far off from tight” however. There’s a point where boasting about how quickly things were done is no longer an excuse for poor production. No excuse > just have to talk the client into a bigger budget >> but < wonder what others could do in that short of time ..? Really don't LOVE putting the drums on much later ....its a lot of work trying to sway my timing === to match the "far from tight". The 70 /80's }} was fun & sync'd == we tracked live,,, _________________________ You got to know more ...than you know ( ͡~ ͜ʖ ͡° )
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#1917900 - 07/27/24 07:50 PM Re: Ruff Mixes but no Latency [Re: C Jo Go]
TAPKAE TAPKAE The Artist Presently Known As Ed Planeteer Registered: 02/28/02 Posts: 3018 Loc: Trumplandia Acres, Shithole US...	This is when you learn how to pocket things when the artist leaves so that at least your own stuff sounds like it's decent. _________________________ The Artist Presently Known As Ed _ Need a second opinion or input on your recording? Troubleshooting a mix? Get in touch for a 1:1 Discord chat! https://discord.gg/DCDjZUfb2E
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#1917923 - 07/27/24 10:31 PM Re: Ruff Mixes but no Latency [Re: ulank]
bear bear Planeteer Registered: 10/25/99 Posts: 6626 Loc: abq,nm,usa	Originally Posted By: ulank And LOGIC stands for Latency Only Gets In CJo’s (way). What does LMFAO mean.....
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#1917933 - 07/27/24 11:29 PM Re: Ruff Mixes but no Latency [Re: bear]
moontan moontan Loquacious Planeteer Registered: 04/16/99 Posts: 32286 Loc: Sol III	the band is supposed to follow the drummer/click track. not the other way around. _________________________ YouTube SoundCloud
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#1917935 - 07/27/24 11:32 PM Re: Ruff Mixes but no Latency [Re: moontan]
C Jo Go C Jo Go EMERITUS ~ VS Roland Loquacious Planeteer Registered: 11/05/01 Posts: 38176 Loc: carmel valley,ca	Originally Posted By: moontan the band is supposed to follow the drummer/click track. not the other way around. You talk those clients into a click $\:p$ It would be wonderful I do convince over 15% ---especially if they are under 60 _________________________ You got to know more ...than you know ( ͡~ ͜ʖ ͡° )
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#1917936 - 07/27/24 11:53 PM Re: Ruff Mixes but no Latency [Re: C Jo Go]
Xenophile Xenophile Planeteer Registered: 09/27/00 Posts: 19402 Loc: Sacramento, CA, USA	Originally Posted By: C Jo Go Originally Posted By: moontan the band is supposed to follow the drummer/click track. not the other way around. You talk those clients into a click $\:p$ It would be wonderful I do convince over 15% ---especially if they are under 60 How about you keep time for them on a hi-hat or even a practice pad, and record that to another track while the client is tracking? It’d be like making your own click track in real time… Like Ringo used to do. Originally Posted By: Ringo Starr I AM the fucking click!” _________________________ "Bobby, I'm sorry you got a head like a potato. I really am."
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#1917938 - 07/27/24 11:54 PM Re: Ruff Mixes but no Latency [Re: Xenophile]
moontan moontan Loquacious Planeteer Registered: 04/16/99 Posts: 32286 Loc: Sol III	if they are not able to follow a drummer or click track, then i would tell them to take their business somewhere else. it's a waste of your time, and it reflects badly on your studio if you produce sub-par work. _________________________ YouTube SoundCloud
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#1917939 - 07/28/24 12:00 AM Re: Ruff Mixes but no Latency [Re: moontan]
Xenophile Xenophile Planeteer Registered: 09/27/00 Posts: 19402 Loc: Sacramento, CA, USA	Moonie, Jo’s business is considerably more laid-back. He doesn’t want to tell his old neighbor to “take his business somewhere else.” The old fart just wants someone to record his mediocre music. Better to try to think of ways to help him, rather than tell him to pound sand. _________________________ "Bobby, I'm sorry you got a head like a potato. I really am."
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#1917940 - 07/28/24 12:01 AM Re: Ruff Mixes but no Latency [Re: moontan]
C Jo Go C Jo Go EMERITUS ~ VS Roland Loquacious Planeteer Registered: 11/05/01 Posts: 38176 Loc: carmel valley,ca	This was the 3rd song from yesterday ---maybe a bit more "together" with rhythm and I put the drums on late last nite .. _________________________ You got to know more ...than you know ( ͡~ ͜ʖ ͡° )
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#1917941 - 07/28/24 12:03 AM Re: Ruff Mixes but no Latency [Re: moontan]
C Jo Go C Jo Go EMERITUS ~ VS Roland Loquacious Planeteer Registered: 11/05/01 Posts: 38176 Loc: carmel valley,ca	Originally Posted By: moontan if they are not able to follow a drummer or click track, then i would tell them to take their business somewhere else. it's a waste of your time, and it reflects badly on your studio if you produce sub-par work. Well :: like I said >> that would be over half my clients -- that would be turned down.. $\:o$ _________________________ You got to know more ...than you know ( ͡~ ͜ʖ ͡° )
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#1917943 - 07/28/24 12:14 AM Re: Ruff Mixes but no Latency [Re: Xenophile]
C Jo Go C Jo Go EMERITUS ~ VS Roland Loquacious Planeteer Registered: 11/05/01 Posts: 38176 Loc: carmel valley,ca	Originally Posted By: Xenophile Originally Posted By: C Jo Go Originally Posted By: moontan the band is supposed to follow the drummer/click track. not the other way around. You talk those clients into a click $\:p$ It would be wonderful I do convince over 15% ---especially if they are under 60 How about you keep time for them on a hi-hat or even a practice pad, and record that to another track while the client is tracking? It’d be like making your own click track in real time… Like Ringo used to do. Originally Posted By: Ringo Starr I AM the fucking click!” Wonder if I could isolate one of my mesh pads -- to be quiet enough for live tracking ?? Edited by C Jo Go (07/28/24 12:16 AM) _________________________ You got to know more ...than you know ( ͡~ ͜ʖ ͡° )
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#1917944 - 07/28/24 12:19 AM Re: Ruff Mixes but no Latency [Re: Xenophile]
C Jo Go C Jo Go EMERITUS ~ VS Roland Loquacious Planeteer Registered: 11/05/01 Posts: 38176 Loc: carmel valley,ca	Originally Posted By: Xenophile Moonie, Jo’s business is considerably more laid-back. He doesn’t want to tell his old neighbor to “take his business somewhere else.” The old fart just wants someone to record his mediocre music. Better to try to think of ways to help him, rather than tell him to pound sand. Thanks ZENO --remember the average age in Carmel is 67 -- I believe $;\)$ ONE GOOD thing :: you don't have to tell them to turn off their cells > in the studio $\:\/$ Edited by C Jo Go (07/28/24 12:19 AM) _________________________ You got to know more ...than you know ( ͡~ ͜ʖ ͡° )
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#1917962 - 07/28/24 01:45 AM Re: Ruff Mixes but no Latency [Re: C Jo Go]
MadGuitrst MadGuitrst Offender Of Senses Planeteer Registered: 06/10/99 Posts: 22679 Loc: 3rd Stone From The Sun	CJo, nobody likes to play to a straight click track, but if you make it a kick and a snare, I'll bet you anything they wouldn't mind. But why don't you just play live with him/them? It will address two issues: timing will be better/more natural, and you'll have more time to mix/take another take, etc. It's a win-win. You love old school, and one take, so do old school, one take. $;\)$ _________________________ “When your 'education' limits your imagination, it is called indoctrination.” -Feynman
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#1917977 - 07/28/24 04:31 AM Re: Ruff Mixes but no Latency [Re: MadGuitrst]
C Jo Go C Jo Go EMERITUS ~ VS Roland Loquacious Planeteer Registered: 11/05/01 Posts: 38176 Loc: carmel valley,ca	Originally Posted By: MadGuitrst CJo, nobody likes to play to a straight click track, but if you make it a kick and a snare, I'll bet you anything they wouldn't mind. But why don't you just play live with him/them? It will address two issues: timing will be better/more natural, and you'll have more time to mix/take another take, etc. It's a win-win. You love old school, and one take, so do old school, one take. $;\)$ It really depends if we are tracking DI with the acoustic ---dual mics pick up my Edrums -- just enough to ruin the track ... I use rubber tip sticks -- even .. _________________________ You got to know more ...than you know ( ͡~ ͜ʖ ͡° )
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#1917980 - 07/28/24 04:45 AM Re: Ruff Mixes but no Latency [Re: C Jo Go]
C Jo Go C Jo Go EMERITUS ~ VS Roland Loquacious Planeteer Registered: 11/05/01 Posts: 38176 Loc: carmel valley,ca	Most of my clients : their metronome is in their foot taps $\:\)$ ...that's the beat they go by -- sometimes I can figure out the tempo from their toes/to the floor --- Using MT Power Drummer -- don't have the full hang of it yet >> the softwares not that hard -- making a template now ...just a kick/ snare or the rim wood block sample.. _________________________ You got to know more ...than you know ( ͡~ ͜ʖ ͡° )
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#1917982 - 07/28/24 04:53 AM Re: Ruff Mixes but no Latency [Re: moontan]
C Jo Go C Jo Go EMERITUS ~ VS Roland Loquacious Planeteer Registered: 11/05/01 Posts: 38176 Loc: carmel valley,ca	Originally Posted By: moontan it's a waste of your time, and it reflects badly on your studio if you produce sub-par work. But this way :: the not so professional the sub-par gets their chance to preserve their songs... Come out smiling & hearts full of soul >> Edited by C Jo Go (07/28/24 05:00 AM) _________________________ You got to know more ...than you know ( ͡~ ͜ʖ ͡° )
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#1918000 - 07/28/24 05:39 AM Re: Ruff Mixes but no Latency [Re: C Jo Go]
C Jo Go C Jo Go EMERITUS ~ VS Roland Loquacious Planeteer Registered: 11/05/01 Posts: 38176 Loc: carmel valley,ca	Here is the song / Stripped -- playing to his own foot taping --- NT 3 on the neck and a MK319 on the body === all to a Dual Vocal Manley _________________________ You got to know more ...than you know ( ͡~ ͜ʖ ͡° )
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#1918006 - 07/28/24 06:23 AM Re: Ruff Mixes but no Latency [Re: C Jo Go]
MadGuitrst MadGuitrst Offender Of Senses Planeteer Registered: 06/10/99 Posts: 22679 Loc: 3rd Stone From The Sun	Yeah, yeah...lay down a kick/snare "click" and he'll tap his foot in time to it...and it will take less time than a single one of your posts in this thread. _________________________ “When your 'education' limits your imagination, it is called indoctrination.” -Feynman
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