#1930797 - 09/24/24 10:59 PM
Got no love for Phil Spector
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Deeper
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Registered: 08/28/01
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Music critics have glorified his "wall of sound" but the guy had no taste and damn little restraint. He ruined the LET IT BE and ALL THINGS MUST PASS albums by imprinting his own sound over top of them. (The All Things Must Pass albums sound more like Phil Spector than George Harrison and that's why they sound so dated now. No other George Harrison music, whether during the Beatles or after, carries as much flab in the productions.)
The "Wall of Sound" was basically Spector piling as many musicians into the studio as could fit. Instead of choosing the best guitar part, or the best keyboard accompaniment, for example, for each song, he would just add more guitars and more keyboards.
If you listen with critical ears, you will find his productions have no depth, no sonic variation, and no regard for what the song NEEDS or who the artist is. Because Spector's going to bury it all in a wash of sound, lacking definition.
Oh, I truly love "You've Got That Loving Feeling" but I give all the credit to the Righteous Brothers who would have made this a huge smash with any producer.
I WILL give Phil Spector credit for producing "Be My Baby" but that was before he had the pull and finances to crowd the studio with every possible musician he could squeeze in. "Be My Baby" is a true gem, but it pre-dates the Wall of Sound.
And anybody who brings a gun into the studio is mentally unfit. I'd have said, "See ya! I'm outa here! Have fun playing with your gun."
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#1930821 - 09/25/24 12:26 AM
Re: Got no love for Phil Spector
[Re: Deeper]
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AL
the last rock hope
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I agree about Let It Be but this guy also did some of the greatest most magical songs ever made.
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Songwriting matters.
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#1931243 - 09/26/24 02:10 PM
Re: Got no love for Phil Spector
[Re: AL]
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Besides "You've Lost That Loving Feeling", where Spector's Wall of Mush actually worked, and "Be My Baby", which happened before Spector began building the wall of mush, I can't think of any other of his productions that I liked.
Oh wait! Spector got producer-credit on Lennon's "Instant Karma". But Lennon was in a big hurry to record that song and get it out on record, and refused to give Spector any more time (to dilute its impact with 47 more musicians). Spector wanted to take the tapes back to Los Angeles and add a string section!
Instant Karma was recorded in one session. Supposedly Spector arrived very late to that session, and only then, because George Harrison found him wandering around in a daze. Lennon pushed the record company to hurry up and release Instant Karma. The song was released 10 days after it was written! That should be in the Guinness Book of World Records!
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#1931336 - 09/26/24 07:21 PM
Re: Got no love for Phil Spector
[Re: Deeper]
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AL
the last rock hope
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River Deep Mountain High, Then He Kissed Me, Christmas (Baby Please Come Home)
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Songwriting matters.
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#1931504 - 09/27/24 01:33 PM
Re: Got no love for Phil Spector
[Re: AL]
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LarryG
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Huge fan of Phil’s work. And The Wrecking Crew.
Different strokes!
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#1931513 - 09/27/24 02:17 PM
Re: Got no love for Phil Spector
[Re: LarryG]
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Don't bring the Wrecking Crew into the argument, Larry. They were without peer! I would be surprised if anyone will argue that. But don't give credit to Phil Spector for what the Wrecking Crew accomplished. Their amazing work happened with many producers and many, many, many "artists" when Phil Spector was nowhere in the vicinity... probably at home playing with his guns.
If anything, I think credit for most of Spector's successes should go to those musicians, not the paranoid schizophrenic murderer that we're discussing.
But I always remain open to learning new things. Larry, describe something about Spector's productions that you like. Educate me, man!
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#1931522 - 09/27/24 03:10 PM
Re: Got no love for Phil Spector
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motown59
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You’re over-simplifying Spector’s career, artistic output and influence. Blanket opinions using absolutes like “no” taste perhaps shows your unfamiliarity with someone’s entire body of work. You’re welcome to those opinions however.
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#1931543 - 09/27/24 05:24 PM
Re: Got no love for Phil Spector
[Re: motown59]
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Deeper
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You’re over-simplifying Spector’s career, artistic output and influence. Blanket opinions using absolutes like “no” taste perhaps shows your unfamiliarity with someone’s entire body of work. You’re welcome to those opinions however.
I agree about blanket opinions, Kel, but this is the internet and nobody's going to read a 16-page analysis of an entire body of work. So we make blanket opinions to get a conversation going. As I've read through old threads around here, I've gained much respect for your well-thought out opinions!
To prove my point about Phil Spector's wishy-washy productions, I would ask any doubters to play any Harrison song produced by George Martin, and then immediately play any song from All Things Must Pass. You will immediately hear the immediacy and vibrancy of George Martin's production compared to the cloudy blanket Spector overlaid on Harrison's songs.
I truly regret we never got the chance to hear the polish and sparkle George Martin would have put on songs like All Things Must Pass, Wah-Wah, and Isn't It A Pity. Spector's production just sounds like everything is in the background. I don't hear any sparkle.
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#1931549 - 09/27/24 06:05 PM
Re: Got no love for Phil Spector
[Re: motown59]
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... this is the internet and nobody's going to read a 16-page analysis
... except me! I would love to read a detailed analysis of a Phil Spector production. I would truly love for someone to teach me what is good about his productions.
I don't think a lot of folks know how to separate 'the song' from the 'production', and most of their "love for Phil Spector" is that what they really love is the great song and the great singer.
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#1931551 - 09/27/24 06:13 PM
Re: Got no love for Phil Spector
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Ismellelephant
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Spector was a master of mono.
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#1931576 - 09/27/24 06:53 PM
Re: Got no love for Phil Spector
[Re: Ismellelephant]
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AL
the last rock hope
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Registered: 04/16/99
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I think Be My Baby is one of the most magical productions of all time. For that alone I love the man.
There is a really cool scene about Spector in the TV movie which is now available for streaming, a very enjoyable film called The Beat Goes On, the Sonny and Cher story. The lady who plays Cher does a kickass job in it too.
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Songwriting matters.
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#1931588 - 09/27/24 07:13 PM
Re: Got no love for Phil Spector
[Re: AL]
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I think Be My Baby is one of the most magical productions of all time.
That's my favorite of his, too. But not for the production. I love it for the song, the singer (Besides delivering the greatest lead vocal of her life, Ronnie did all the Bvox herself, or so I've read), and the arrangement. Especially the arrangement.
I wouldn't credit Spector for the arrangement. That sounds like a Wrecking Crew arrangement. Like when all the music stops except for the drums? (That may have been the first time that was ever done...) I bet Hal Blaine came up with that idea. He was notorious for inventing his parts.
Like the intro kick-drum-part on Herb Alpert's "A Taste of Honey." Blaine came up with that. No producer told him to do it. Blaine also came up with a similar kick-drum-part in "Music To Watch Girls By" -- one of my all-time favorite instrumentals.
Carol Kaye invented her own great bass parts, too, like the intro to Wichita Lineman. Spector didn't create those parts.
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#1931599 - 09/27/24 07:47 PM
Re: Got no love for Phil Spector
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Popmann
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I love that Eddie Money song.
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#1931660 - 09/28/24 04:06 AM
Re: Got no love for Phil Spector
[Re: Popmann]
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LarryG
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Registered: 02/04/00
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All our opinions / preferences / likes / dislikes / ears / brains, etc are uniquely subjective.
Love what Phil did on Maca’s “Long and Winding Road” — gorgeous, emotional arrangement to me. Paul hated it.
Different strokes.
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/LarryG
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#1931729 - 09/28/24 02:42 PM
Re: Got no love for Phil Spector
[Re: LarryG]
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Deeper
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Registered: 08/28/01
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All our opinions / preferences / likes / dislikes / ears / brains, etc are uniquely subjective.
Love what Phil did on Maca’s “Long and Winding Road” — gorgeous, emotional arrangement to me. Paul hated it.
Different strokes.
Absolutely true on all counts! Paul hated it for the same reason I do: What Spector added was overbearing and wasn't organic to the song the way George Martin's orchestral arrangements were. McCartney thought what Spector did was sacrilege. Un-Beatley.
I'm glad at least somebody enjoyed it.
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#1932227 - 09/30/24 01:50 PM
Re: Got no love for Phil Spector
[Re: LarryG]
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To prove my point about Phil Spector's wishy-washy productions, I ask any doubters to play ANY Harrison song produced by George Martin, then immediately play any song from All Things Must Pass. You will instantly hear the immediacy and vibrancy of George Martin's production compared to the cloudy blanket Spector overlaid on Harrison's songs.
Has anyone cared enough to try this A/B?
Doesn't anybody care enough to describe exactly what it is they like about Spector's productions, so I can learn something?
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