Registered: 08/28/01
Posts: 259
Loc: Too close to Nashville
The little bastards that louse up otherwise fine vocal takes. The unimportant words between the lyrics. These are the words that require me 10 takes to get right. These are the words that require the most editing. Articles, prepositions, conjunctions.
They get mumbled. They go flat. They disappear entirely.
The singer (me) unconsciously rushes past them in a hurry to get to the ‘important’ lyrics.
Often I’ll sing a phrase “in tune” except for this little word. I give all my attention to singing the meat of the lyric in tune, and neglect the pitch of this little semi-meaningless word.
Often these words disappear entirely. They drop in volume and get lost in the mix and require automixing to boost one tiny syllable.
Often I fail to enunciate these words clearly. In some styles of music, mumbling can be good. The harder you veer into rock and black music, the more mumbling is appropriate. It wouldn’t be rock if you enunciated as clearly as Julie Andrews, Frank Sinatra, or Merle Haggard.
My music straddles the line between 60s-70s era rock, pop, and progressive. When I veer towards progressive, it calls on me to enunciate clearly like Peter Gabriel or Sgt. Peppery Beatles.
When telling a story, failure to enunciate one of these words often diminishes how effectively the rest of the line communicates to the listener.
Have you noticed these things in your vocal tracks?
Registered: 08/28/01
Posts: 259
Loc: Too close to Nashville
Originally Posted By: ulank
I have the opposite problem.
THE hills are alive with THE sound OF music.
A lot of songwriters have that problem! (not the pro's)
Somewhere along the songwriting path, we must learn to write our lyrics and melody so that the weakest words (my list) are not accented by strong changes in melodic direction.
Gotta figure out how to get the melody to accent only the vital words, the ones that stir up emotions.
Registered: 08/28/01
Posts: 259
Loc: Too close to Nashville
One of the three reasons I joined the planet was to have conversations with people who would teach me to be a better songwriter, singer, and producer. I'm beginning to believe that's not going to happen here.
The other two reasons were for critiques of my music (when I'm finally able to post it), and simply for good conversation.
I have seen a bit of good conversation, amongst a barrage of insincerity. I know some folks are unable to be serious, and I'm not judgemental about that. We all could stand to have more humor in our lives.
Registered: 08/28/01
Posts: 259
Loc: Too close to Nashville
No response? Really?
If the VSPlanet is simply the wrong place to learn to be a better songwriter, singer, and producer, I can accept that, with no hard feelings.
Can anyone recommend a different website/forum, where I might learn to improve? I can still hang around here when I need a quick chuckle and lack the time to read long, well thought out threads.
One of the three reasons I joined the planet was to have conversations with people who would teach me to be a better songwriter, singer, and producer. I'm beginning to believe that's not going to happen here.
I've been trying for that for 25 years now. I'll let you know when it takes!
I had a reply...but, I deemed it not that helpful. I was going to point out that REMOVING a lot of those "incidental filler words" are what I DO change about my friend's songs when I interpret them for him. He writes lyrics that can sometimes read like a Trumpian run on sentence. But, I couldn't come up with an example off the top of my head...without that it didn't seem helpful.
Originally Posted By: Deeper
Last Call for alkie-hall!
Now THAT sounds good about now. I saw a story on 60 minutes about Mezcal yesterday--but the stores were closed...thanks for the reminder. Figured i needed to try that...
I notice that many wonderful singers enunciate quite a bit for effect:
Woody Guthrie Aretha Ella Most every early country singer many modern hip hop singers
It's really cool when it works
And what else is really cool when it works is not so well enunciated
Jagger Pixies Sonic Youth
Funny thing about Mick though is often we can't hear him because he says unexpected lines. When I know his actual words I realize he's not all that blurry.
Van Morrison does both I suppose.
I think they're both such cool things to do, and I love to do both.
Your topics will compel when compelling. You've gotten a lot of thoughts from people in a short while. The place here is whatever we can put out here.
As for where I place those words-not sure. If I have lyrics or poems and I am putting them to music, my mind just clips or adds things instantly to feel good to sing it and rhyme it.
I mean that part is never the hold up. If I have phrases or thoughts that carry emotion and ring my sonic bell, and I have good rhymes, then adding or subtracting syllables happens real fast in the subconcious
That's how you get better at anything. It's not the natural talent that makes great. It's not the hardest work. It's the SMARTEST work. It's NOT doing "more work" on something that isn't the next weakest link.
The predictor of greatness is ones detachment from self judgement in focusing targeted improvement workouts. not arguing with the world that it's NOT the weakest link or feeling depressed about how shit you are at X...just asking "how do I make that better? How do I improve it? Can I delegate it?"
Ok...now back to the Mezcal. Should I get blanco or aged for my first impression? These are the important questions.
But I do admire the precision landing of every element of, like, My Funny Valentine or something, and although I can find my way to lyrics, I'd love to be able to work with a Lorenz Hart type person because they have a pipeline to The Gods.
Registered: 08/28/01
Posts: 259
Loc: Too close to Nashville
Originally Posted By: Tao Jones
I notice that many wonderful singers enunciate quite a bit for effect... It's really cool when it works... And what else is really cool when it works is not so well enunciated... Jagger...
Funny thing about Mick though is often we can't hear him because he says unexpected lines.
I've loved the Stones since 1969 when I first gave them a serious listen. But it took me more than 50 years to realize that Jagger is a true genius on so many levels. His genius extends to enunciation. He knows exactly when to enunciate, and when not to.
A great example is "Time Waits For No One" where he clearly enunciates the divinely poetic lyrics in the first verse so that you can hear them clearly, but then he mumbles the shitty lyrics in the second verse so you can't make them out. It's Only Rock'n'Roll, and he likes it.
Registered: 08/28/01
Posts: 259
Loc: Too close to Nashville
Originally Posted By: Tao Jones
Mick is a genius singer I’d agree. He brings a lot to the table ranging from animal to sophisticate
Some think he couldn’t sing- I don’t share that view, His pitch is fine, his expressiveness is past most .
He makes his vocals sound spontaneous and loose but the truth is, he is coldly calculating to achieve that effect.
I always believed he was a great rock vocalist, but not a singer. But I was wrong. Recent study has shown me he can sing as pretty as a choir boy if he wanted. This is more apparent in his Bvox, where singing pretty won't tarnish the Stones image.
