Registered: 04/05/00
Posts: 26877
Loc: Palm Beach, Florida- U S A
Anything with weighted keys is way above my budget , $3500 ish. The big name brands like Roland, Yamaha, and Korg all seem to think light weight is the most important spec. I just want another, second keyboard like I always had. I bought a Yamaha MX-61 and returned it shortly after because it felt like a “Christmas keyboard” From Walmart, didn’t sound much better,
They all want you to buy an arranging workstation, no performance oriented keys except for Nord, snd I already have one.
Still looking, maybe older used in good shape.
-m
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Can you play that an octave louder?
*IF* you only need a keyboard for studio work, then a MIDI controller with no onboard sounds is cheaper than a Nord or something like that, even with weighted keys. semi-weighted is fine by me...
just load good softsynths in your computer and off you go.
not sure if this was meant for me or Marty, but...
just for starter; Pianoteq, which is a physical modelling synth, that does piano. which is its main job.
so good in fact that some people use it live instead of a real physical piano.
since it's a 'synth', the whole installer is around 50 MB in size. and you get a lot of acoustic, electric pianos, harpsichords and whatnot in that, since it's a synth. compared to sample based 'solutions' that can go 10 GB or more for one single instrument...
and it's more responsive that those multi GB sampled things. and it does sympathetic resonances, like a real piano, which is almost impossible to do with a sampled based instrument. because it's a synth, and not a sampler.
Registered: 04/05/00
Posts: 26877
Loc: Palm Beach, Florida- U S A
This is for live gigs. Ihave thought of a controller. I have a nice one in my studio, but it’s heavy and has 88 keys, not what I want I do not use a computer/laptop on live gigs. Where do I store the sounds?
in the old days, I had two synth keyboards and one synth controller and a rack box with six synth modules. Been there done that.
The primary use of this keyboard would be for strings, brass, synth leads, and maybe a few percussion or Bass sounds.
-m
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Registered: 09/27/00
Posts: 19487
Loc: Sacramento, CA, USA
Marty, I’m not sure we’re on the same page as far as what “weighted,” “semi-weighted” and “non-weighted” means, and to which class your Nord belongs. To me, “weighted” implies a piano hammer-action keyboard, like the pricey Montage M8, or Kronos 88 etc. “Semi-weighted” is what I just got in the Montage M7. It is a much lighter, synth or organ type action, usually with rounded key edges so you can do Hammond-style smears without ripping your hands apart. “Unweighted” would be what I think you are describing as the cheap-feeling, plastic crap. For me, I wouldn’t see a point in carrying around two weighted, piano-action keyboards. If I’m bringing two, I want one weighted piano action and one semi-weighted synth action. For the last several years I’ve used the Korg Kronos 61 as the sole “brain” as well as the semi-weighted synth action of my rig. I connected a StudioLogic SL88 Grand to it for piano action. The Kronos was not cheap. I think I paid about $3400 for an open-box that I found on Guitar Center website. I think I paid about $800 for the SL88 Grand a few years ago. I had tried the SL88 Studio, and returned it. It was exhausting to play. I described it as trying to play a memory-foam mattress. Some people like it though… To each his own. The SL88 Grand is pretty heavy, at about 35-40 lbs, but it has a pretty nice weighted piano action with after-touch. My favorite weighted piano action keyboard is still my old Motif ES8, which weighs in at something over 70 lbs and lives at home in my studio now.
It sounds like you want two of what I think of as general-purpose keyboards. You’ve already got a nice Nord, and I’m guessing that it has a weighted, piano-style action. I would think a Montage 61, either the older original version or the newer M6 would be a good choice for you, offering a wide variety of great sounds and a nice, semi-weighted, synth/organ style keyboard with velocity and after-touch. Kronos 61 is a great synth… Extremely powerful. But many users (not all) report reliability issues like I had. Also it is a very complicated architecture with no less than 9 engines. Pretty overwhelming even for an engineer nerd like me. Nautilus is a scaled-back Kronos… Lack of after-touch is a deal-breaker for me. When I’m busy playing with both hands, I want to be able to use after-touch for expression… vibrato, filter cut-off, “Leslie” speed control, etc.
Again, I don’t know if your Nord can work similarly to my Kronos as the “brain” with another controller playing a different patch. I know the Nord “Stage” series is designed to do that, but I don’t know about the Electro models.
Tom/Flatcat has a Nektar Panorama P6 controller that says he likes a lot. I had one of those, and I gave it to my kid. I didn’t like the action at all. It is a semi-weighted action, but it has “sharp,” piano-style key edges that hurt my hands when I try to to Hammond-style smears, and the action makes a lot of noise. Even with headphones on I can hear that thing clunking and thumping when I play it.
I have read positive reviews about the new line of Native Instruments controller keyboards, but I’ve never touched one. Per my understanding, Fatar makes a lot of the keyboards in multiple manufacturer’s products. I know for a fact that both of my StudioLogic controllers actions are made by Fatar.
Again, if I play a 2-keyboard rig, I use a weighted, 88-key piano action on the bottom primarily for piano-style (and maybe percussion) sounds and a semi-weighted synth style action on the top for fast organ, synth, strings, brass, etc. Velocity and after-touch sensitivity are must-haves on both keyboards. The new Montage M8 and the new Native Instruments controllers feature polyphonic after-touch… which means you can apply after-touch control to the sounds for each key individually. Very few keyboards have this capability. Most keyboards that support after-touch use “channel after-touch,” which applies the control to all the notes being played on a particular midi channel.
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Registered: 09/27/00
Posts: 19487
Loc: Sacramento, CA, USA
If you want to go the laptop route that Moonie is suggesting, you don’t need multiple laptops unless you want redundancy. A decent MacBook Pro running Mainstage is more than powerful enough to do what you want. But then you’re dealing with programming and connecting a computer and controllers and interfaces. I did that for a few years, and it was the most flexible rig I have used, but involved a lot of sound-design type programming, and a lot of stuff to plug in at gigs… hence a lot of potential points of failure. That being said, I had very few problems with my old 2014 Intel MacBook Pro. I have had more reliability issues with my Kronos than I did with my Mainstage rig. I just got tired of all the wires.
_________________________ "Bobby, I'm sorry you got a head like a potato. I really am."
Registered: 04/05/00
Posts: 26877
Loc: Palm Beach, Florida- U S A
My Nord is semi weighted, perfect. I really don’t wanna bring a laptop. The only one I have is ancient and I don’t trust it. It makes no sense to buy a laptop because that would put me way over budget.
One favorite upper keyboard in the past was my Roland D50, but both units I owned had mechanical problems.
Well-Sampled sounds may be the best choice. I will investigate used, controllers, midi modules.
-m
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Can you play that an octave louder?
Registered: 07/11/01
Posts: 30371
Loc: Westborough, MA, USA
I have the P4, the 49 key one. I like it mostly because of the integration with REAPER. I have since bought a Nektar LX+ 61 key that I actually like a lot - has the integration plus it's more of a "synth" action keyboard. I agree with Xeno on the weirdness of the keybed on the Panorama, but it works for me. YMMV.
Maybe you should consider a used Roland XP unit. I have an XP60 which I'm probably going to sell, it has two of the sound cards in it, pretty good sounds overall. I just don't use it any more. That is the *best* keybed I own.
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Registered: 04/22/99
Posts: 9900
Loc: a Mac of some kind
Marty, check this one out: Arturia AstroLab It really is a great stage keyboard. I would definitely test it and see if it is something for your needs. The keys are from Fatar.
I like the feel of Fatar keybeds. What surprises me is a company hasn't figured out a way of switching from weighted to non weighted. Weighted is for piano, "Synth" sounds not so much. JMHO
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I should had thought more about selling my K2600 now ..... nothing out there with the quality / make . We don't use VST --- just the samples in the keyboard >> mainly orch solo stuff:::
semi-weighted Fatar keys for this amatuer & Kurz samples still work ~~for for our clients ...
Good luck out there Marty ..
Edited by C Jo Go (10/31/2405:54 PM)
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Registered: 04/05/00
Posts: 26877
Loc: Palm Beach, Florida- U S A
I sold a $2200 Korg keyboard a year ago because it had mushy key feeling, with a large key travel. I tried it for my use as the upper and it also failed for being too slow for live use.
I have a nice 88 key Kawai MP6 stage piano in the studio, where it will stay because of its size and weight. (Also the Hammond rig)
I went to Guitar Center and found expensive boards and cheap boards with little in the middle. What they did have was not to my liking.
-m
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Can you play that an octave louder?
Registered: 10/16/01
Posts: 10776
Loc: Litchfield, NH, USA
Originally Posted By: Arthur
Marty, check this one out: Arturia AstroLab It really is a great stage keyboard. I would definitely test it and see if it is something for your needs. The keys are from Fatar.
This French company Arturia makes some excellent keyboards, and keyboard controllers.
I have their Keylab 88 MkII keyboard MIDI and modular controller, plus their full V collection X of thousands of sounds and effects for recording, with over 9,000 editable presets.
It uses a semi-weighted Fatar TP100LR hammer-action keybed with aftertouch. I'd say it's the most enjoyable keyboard to play that I've ever owned.
. . Falcon
_________________________ . . . but, what do I know?
I have the Keylab 88 mk1. Feels legit to me. No cheap toy action here. I do keep a Novation Impulse around for the springier synth action when some quicker response is needed, but the Keylab feels regal. Was probably $500-600 when I got it about 5 years ago.
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Registered: 04/05/00
Posts: 26877
Loc: Palm Beach, Florida- U S A
I checked out the Arturia, very nice but more of a primary keyboard if I didn’t have the Nord. Still looking.
One of my former students suggested that I do what he does, use a keyboard controller and get the sounds from GarageBand on my iPhone. you can add sounds to GarageBand. I am told. Is mainstage available for iphone? My ipad is tied up with sheet music.
-m
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Can you play that an octave louder?
Registered: 02/03/08
Posts: 20592
Loc: Chicago, IL
So I’ve been following this thread as I am now in the market for a keyboard/synth myself.
Reason being, we recently pitched my 40 year old kimball upright piano. It hadn’t been tuned in over 20 years and had some half-dead keys so it was time to move on. Looked into donating it but no one wants to inherit a problem that’s big and heavy to move.
Anyway, I’m mostly in the market for an electronic replacement for the piano but would also like some organ and synthy sounds and a few other bells and whistles (pitch wheel, on board fx, etc.) that might inspire some creativity. Looking for something mid grade but good feel. Don’t need 88 keys but I also ain’t want half a piano.
I looked at the arturia stuff above but I mostly only see controllers rather than standalone players.
I guess other considerations would be
A) if it doesn’t come with a stand what would be a good quality stand (it’ll mostly live in the same spot in the family room as the piano, and moved to the basement studio when needed)
B) what type of amp would I need (unless there’s any decent ones with on board speakers?). I don’t necessarily need to achieve full rock band volume. Just enough volume to project with 20+ family members singing Christmas carols in the family room.
Full disclosure. My last relevant frame of reference for a synth is the korg M1. We used that on a couple albums back in the day for piano, organ and effect sounds.
I also still have a home consumer Casio Concertmate from the late 80s/early 90s but it’s mostly a toy. Plastic keys, cheesy backing beats and crappy on board speakers.
Any recs for something that would suit my needs? All in budget, depending on stand and amp needs, would be around $2k but lower would be better.
Thx!
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Registered: 02/03/08
Posts: 20592
Loc: Chicago, IL
I forgot to add. I only hijacked this thread because I felt the stature of limitations has passed and I’m trying to save bandwidth for flatcat and wish.
Sorry if I stepped on toes Marty.
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“This is no place for vacation.”
So I’ve been following this thread as I am now in the market for a keyboard/synth myself.
Reason being, we recently pitched my 40 year old kimball upright piano. It hadn’t been tuned in over 20 years and had some half-dead keys so it was time to move on. Looked into donating it but no one wants to inherit a problem that’s big and heavy to move.
Anyway, I’m mostly in the market for an electronic replacement for the piano but would also like some organ and synthy sounds and a few other bells and whistles (pitch wheel, on board fx, etc.) that might inspire some creativity. Looking for something mid grade but good feel. Don’t need 88 keys but I also ain’t want half a piano.
I looked at the arturia stuff above but I mostly only see controllers rather than standalone players.
I guess other considerations would be
A) if it doesn’t come with a stand what would be a good quality stand (it’ll mostly live in the same spot in the family room as the piano, and moved to the basement studio when needed)
B) what type of amp would I need (unless there’s any decent ones with on board speakers?). I don’t necessarily need to achieve full rock band volume. Just enough volume to project with 20+ family members singing Christmas carols in the family room.
Full disclosure. My last relevant frame of reference for a synth is the korg M1. We used that on a couple albums back in the day for piano, organ and effect sounds.
I also still have a home consumer Casio Concertmate from the late 80s/early 90s but it’s mostly a toy. Plastic keys, cheesy backing beats and crappy on board speakers.
Any recs for something that would suit my needs? All in budget, depending on stand and amp needs, would be around $2k but lower would be better.
Thx!
Controller and plugins aren't an option for you?
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What do you call a sad cranberry? A blueberry.
Registered: 02/03/08
Posts: 20592
Loc: Chicago, IL
Not really.
I’m still on the 2480 and I haven’t even fired that up in a while because battery needs to be replaced.
I gotta revive my computing thread because that’s related to this as well. But long story short, I just need something that has good piano, organ and synth sounds and can be recorded directly to some sort of non-2480 platform. Anything recorded would be captured live.
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“This is no place for vacation.”