#482634 - 03/17/04 04:33 AM
Drum....Drum....Drum....Drum
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B#
Mo
Planeteer
Registered: 03/03/04
Posts: 5561
Loc: Concord, NC
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I've a Boss DR770 (Dr Rythym). I love the drum sounds it has. What I don't love is the time it takes to figure out how to setup drum settings with it, how to use the individual out, etc. The screen is small and when powered on, you can hardly read what's on the screen and the manual is terrible. I don't have a live drummer. I have heard good praise from many that say the Boss Dr Rythym machine is one of the best you can own.
Anyone have an alternate suggestion for me. I really don't want to spend alot of time trying to figure out how to make something work. I would prefer to spend the time eq'ing, panning, etc, after it's recorded. I would like to be able to place different drum pieces (hi-hat, cymbals, toms, etc) on different tracks on my VS and work with them.
I don't currently have any music software on my PC. Would it be best if I used pre-recorded live drum tracks (discrete drumes, etc) or do u have other suggestions ? 
_________________________
 MLB VS Planet radio...ROCKS MO's Music 
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#482635 - 03/17/04 05:15 AM
Re: Drum....Drum....Drum....Drum
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congalocke
Planeteer
Registered: 11/22/01
Posts: 883
Loc: Bellevue, WA
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C#,
You know, you might do well to get Discrete Drums to work with at first. If just so you can start doing what you want to do which is record. Realize that you are gonna be limited to what your going to get...if you want that cool Neil Peart fill or Phil Collins cascading toms then DD's may not suit your needs. I have not owned them and you may be surprised but...
It does take some time to sit down and figure your machine out but....you will be the richer for it. I remember just sitting down to my XP-80 Keyboard to try and figure out what drums should be doing exactly. In fact it took over an hour to press record and make a pass. The only reason I did this was because I knew how I wanted the drums to go. But with my options being limited I saw no other choice.
Good Luck and...give it a shot...set aside one day and lock yourself in the room and pick a song that you know exactly how you want the drums to go. Remeber that the hi-hat usually isn't going when a fill is happening. Go Get Um'
conga
_________________________
“...that there’s something wrong with the world, you don’t know what it is, but it’s there...” Morpheus – The Matrix www.machinesound.com
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#482636 - 03/17/04 08:01 AM
Re: Drum....Drum....Drum....Drum
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Jazzooo
Loquacious Planeteer
Registered: 05/18/02
Posts: 55700
Loc: San Miguel de Allende, Mexico ...
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Not what you want to hear, but...take a couple of hours and get really familiar with the machine. It really isn't that complicated, and you'll be better off in the end.
_________________________
Dougrobinson.com
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#482637 - 03/17/04 01:38 PM
Re: Drum....Drum....Drum....Drum
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kavish
Planeteer
Registered: 05/12/02
Posts: 3002
Loc: the home of KrispyKreme and C...
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One of the most aggravating experiences I've been thru was learning my good 'ol Roland R-8 drum machine. I pulled my hair out for a couple weeks figuring that thing out. My wife remembers going to bed and then waking back up again still hearing the "boom-ba-boom" sound thru the wall, where I'd stayed up all night learning my drum machine. Within a couple weeks I had it basically conquered.
Now I know that baby inside and out and can get anything I want out of it. It was worth the aggravation.
There are plenty of DR770 users around here, so it should be easy to get answers to your learning curve questions. 
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#482639 - 03/17/04 03:09 PM
Re: Drum....Drum....Drum....Drum
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SlobberMonster
Planeteer
Registered: 09/23/00
Posts: 89
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probably the easiest, fastest PC progam for sketching drums is Acid Pro. It's loops and you just assemble them. And it sounds pretty good.
_________________________
So much freaking gear that I can't fit it into my space.
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#482640 - 03/17/04 03:20 PM
Re: Drum....Drum....Drum....Drum
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Martin
Planeteer
Registered: 11/26/99
Posts: 1525
Loc: London, England
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I have a DR770 and, while it has its limitations, it does have excellent sounds and is very flexible.
The most restricting thing is not having seperate Outs for each drum. I get round this by recording a Sync Track from the 770 onto the VS, then using that to drive the 770. That way I can play back the song/pattern on the 770 several times through , 'soloing' each drum/cymbal in turn and recording each on its on track on the VS ready for EQ-ing, panning etc.
Stay with it: it's not THAT comlicated and it is a relativley affordable and high quality-sounding solution.
All the best,
Martin
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#482641 - 03/17/04 04:38 PM
Re: Drum....Drum....Drum....Drum
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The Un-dr.
Planeteer
Registered: 01/06/03
Posts: 2352
Loc: St. Paul, Minnesota
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C#,
I feel your pain, dude!
I've had a Roland R-8 for years and only used the presets when I recorded on my old 4 track cassette. The R-8 manual gave me a headache the few times I cracked it open!
So, last year when I got my 2480 and everything else in my studio, I picked up the Roland MC-909 figuring I might as well upgrade to the latest technology if I have to finally study some manuals.
Well, the MC-909 isn't exactly easy to learn, but once you put the time in, everything is sweet!
So hang in there and do your time in the woodshed! (Maybe I should revisit the R-8 and see if there's sounds I can't get on the MC-909...?)
I should point out, though, that the Roland video manuals are a godsend...(too bad they don't make them for old gear...), and make everything soooo much easier.
_________________________
"No matter how cynical you get, it's impossible to keep up."--Lily Tomlin
"After silence, that which comes nearest to expressing the inexpressible is music."--Aldous Huxley
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#482642 - 03/17/04 05:21 PM
Re: Drum....Drum....Drum....Drum
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trendannoyer
Planeteer
Registered: 01/12/02
Posts: 1527
Loc: Ireland
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#482646 - 03/17/04 08:25 PM
Re: Drum....Drum....Drum....Drum
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GAMBLE
Planeteer
Registered: 02/22/04
Posts: 18894
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I agree with un-dr. I too own the 909 and though fairly complex getting to know the system, once you do itll blown your mind. If you would like a quick rundown read posts in "other related roland products".
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#482647 - 03/17/04 11:47 PM
Re: Drum....Drum....Drum....Drum
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B#
Mo
Planeteer
Registered: 03/03/04
Posts: 5561
Loc: Concord, NC
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Un-Dr........I agree with you on making us pay for a LD phone call is pretty cheap when we are spending multiple $K per person. Give'm hell bout not having a 1-800 #
Gamble.....I'll check out the "other" posts alos....thanx !
_________________________
MLB VS Planet radio...ROCKS MO's Music
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#482648 - 03/18/04 09:30 PM
Re: Drum....Drum....Drum....Drum
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Gothbin
Planeteer
Registered: 11/13/02
Posts: 725
Loc: The Netherlands
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I don't how it excactly goes with Roland drummachines, but I own a Yamaha RM1x for a couple of years now.
The first steps where hard, and the learning curves steep. After a week or two I found out how it worked, how to sync it to other midi stuff, and make use of it capabilities to work with other synths.
I still like how the machine works, I love it's floppy drive to back-up, import and export standard midifiles and it's rocksolid stability.
I only don't like the sounds to much, as they are more dance/hip-hop related. I mostly use the RM1x for programming, and my Korg N1 synth for the sounds. Lately, I've been thinking of purchasing a Alesis DM 5pro, as this device has several outputs, and a bunch of nice sounds.
On the other hand a Roland TD 10 module would be nice too, and I can add Pads and triggers later on.....
For now, I'm quiet broke, and have to do it the "old way", but who knows.
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#482649 - 03/19/04 06:56 PM
Re: Drum....Drum....Drum....Drum
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Biggcheese
Planeteer
Registered: 01/06/02
Posts: 2469
Loc: The edge of the Universe
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I'm not sure anyone answered your question directly, if I interpreted correctly myself, but I think you are asking about a programming interface. I have the DR-660 and I have the same problem, the drum sounds are probably usable but the programming interface is difficult to use.
Personally I've decided that the computer is the way to go, but in your case you could probably use a program like Fruity Loops to trigger the sounds from the drum machine. This would allow you to see where all of the drum hits line up as a unit instead of one instrument at a time, and you would have much more flexiblity when inputting the data. With the drum machine you have to scroll over to each drum hit and press a combination of keys to modify it. With the computer interface you only have to move the mouse and select or deselect each sound which is much, much faster in the long run.
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#482650 - 03/19/04 07:10 PM
Re: Drum....Drum....Drum....Drum
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jabulani_jonny
Planeteer/Artist # 163
Planeteer
Registered: 02/23/04
Posts: 125
Loc: Pine Mountain, GA
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Trend, I'll have to correct you on your proverb...
Give a man a fish and you feed him for a day, teach a man to fish...
and he drinks beer all day.
Just wanted to clear that up. 
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#482651 - 03/19/04 08:37 PM
Re: Drum....Drum....Drum....Drum
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GAMBLE
Planeteer
Registered: 02/22/04
Posts: 18894
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Gothbin had a point. Is it just me or are most or all of the best "drum machines" dance/techno oriented? The MC-909 (far from just a drum machine) is the best piece of equipment Ive ever had in dealing with drums but is dance/techno oreiented (but all that can be changed...its not a user friendly machine but the user options are outstanding).....maybe because those styles use mainly beats supplemented with synth...that makes since but I sure hope the MC-1010 is rock oreinted...I could think of more than a few double bass stlyed samples I wouldnt mind having.
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#482652 - 03/19/04 08:50 PM
Re: Drum....Drum....Drum....Drum
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FabJZ
Planeteer/Artist # 77
Planeteer
Registered: 05/22/99
Posts: 204
Loc: Ontario, Canada
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I have a 770. It is OK, but I don't want to spend weeks learning the thing. I feel I am getting old and would rather spend my time writing better lyrics. I want a drum 'thing' that has lots of pre-programmed patterns and individual outs for easy mixing (rather than a stereo mix from the 'thing'). I want to be able to replace individual pieces of the pre-programmed pattern. And I want the 'thing' to be able to add fills as I go between verse and chorus. Am I asking for too much?
I saw a quick demo of Groove Agent. It looks good. Does anyone have experience with it? If it is expensive, but does what I want, so be it. I will pay.
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#482653 - 03/19/04 09:12 PM
Re: Drum....Drum....Drum....Drum
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Gothbin
Planeteer
Registered: 11/13/02
Posts: 725
Loc: The Netherlands
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FabJZ, ever thought about a real drummer? Could be a she too LOL, interesting to write new lyrics about her too..... just joking, I get the point. Is it really getting older, or do you feel like me, that you don't want to spent half the time learning new product/software?
I have been looking for a nice way to get drums, with not to much hassle. Either devices/software seem to be dance orientated, or you have to buy & try loads of sample cd's and learn to operate samplers very well. Either way a Roland Rockdrum VD 1010 metal edition would come handy to me in my situation.....I'm serious about this one.
It could have 1 or 2 R-Bus ports for syncing and audio transfers and a bassplayer-proof interface.
I'm dreaming I know but.......Laura help us!!!!
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#482654 - 03/19/04 09:38 PM
Re: Drum....Drum....Drum....Drum
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FabJZ
Planeteer/Artist # 77
Planeteer
Registered: 05/22/99
Posts: 204
Loc: Ontario, Canada
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I have stopped thinking about real drummers!!
Have you seen the DVD of Sting doing his latest CD, Sacred Love? He has no drummer. The drum parts come off the keyboards, but he has a percussionist that brings it to life. I like that approach. I like that a lot. For us 2480 folks too, by synching fake drums to the 2480, we have the machine present the beat and measure - for the whole tune. This is useful. If we recorded drummers live, anything less than perfect tempo this feature would not work. Also, real drums take up a lot of space in the studio, they are loud, and very difficult to get good sounds from. (That is my experience).
So, I keep looking for the best solution using fake drums. And I did like the look of Groove Agent.
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#482655 - 03/19/04 10:24 PM
Re: Drum....Drum....Drum....Drum
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B#
Mo
Planeteer
Registered: 03/03/04
Posts: 5561
Loc: Concord, NC
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Fabjz.........I'm witcha baby ! I agree, since I'm just gettin onto this...I'm pretty discouraged and very dissapointed that I've got to spend that much time to get a decent drum track laid dow. Not sure if you saw the info I had on Groove Agent and the cost associated...so here it is again:
While at Guitarmagaeddon at GC last night I ck'd into GROOVE AGENT, but then found out I'd have to have CUBASE SX (or SL), and would then need a good audio card for my PC...all in all would cost bout $13-$1500.
Seems to me this is a great market for something to come along that will help us out. Personally, I think it's BS to have the DR770 rated as one of the top machines out there and it's very hard to use and I actually have to use a flashlight to read the damn screen !
_________________________
MLB VS Planet radio...ROCKS MO's Music
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#482656 - 03/19/04 10:34 PM
Re: Drum....Drum....Drum....Drum
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GAMBLE
Planeteer
Registered: 02/22/04
Posts: 18894
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Unfortunetly Fab, the 770 doesnt hold a candle too what your asking for (I use it for practice, for scratch, or for a base sound to send into something with slightly more options). The reality is is that alot of people use this so they are going to justify it as being ok..when the reality is youll never fool anyone, you will never achieve a fluid realistic feel. Lots of people would disagree, but the point is is that I dont think the 770 ever fooled anyone even though it is a damn good drum machine. The time it would take to create a decent sounding drum machine track could have been spent using something that is sampled from real drums or a much higher quality sound. You will have to get a more "pro" system that does indeed take a bit to learn, thats life. Gothbin your thinking what Im thinking...a system like this is not only overdue, its ridiculous that something like this hasnt been realesed.
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#482657 - 03/20/04 07:16 AM
Re: Drum....Drum....Drum....Drum
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The Un-dr.
Planeteer
Registered: 01/06/03
Posts: 2352
Loc: St. Paul, Minnesota
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For what it's worth...
As anyone who has read my posts knows, I'm strictly a beginner. However, with the video manual's help, I've learned quite a bit about working the 909 despite how intimidating it can be at first.
Yes, I had to put some time into learning it, but the rewards are amazing! Let me note that I have the "Dynamic Drums Kits" edition of the SRX Expansion Board series (SRX-01), and this really sounds great! That said, the "real" kits on the presets are basically just as good, but I like having more options etc.
[GAMBLE: I think the SRX-01 has those rock kits you're looking for...see if a dealer will open one and let you check it out--Guitar Center let me do that with a few SRX boards!]
It takes time to program a drum kit using the SRX-01's samples, but I really am blown away by the results; the first tune I recorded with fills and such that I wrote all by my little self turned out great (I did play drums in a high school band, so that helps when programming drums, I think...).
And I've really only begun to scratch the surface of this machine's potential....
_________________________
"No matter how cynical you get, it's impossible to keep up."--Lily Tomlin
"After silence, that which comes nearest to expressing the inexpressible is music."--Aldous Huxley
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#482658 - 03/20/04 08:50 AM
Re: Drum....Drum....Drum....Drum
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Brad Lyons
Planeteer
Registered: 01/31/02
Posts: 8776
Loc: Atlanta, GA
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I own the Dynamic Drums expansion, the variety and quality of it is up there with many of my GigaStudio libraries.... it's a must have for anyone with a Roland synth that accepts SRX cards and looking for a large collection of drums, cymbals, and percussion. You have multi-tone velocity points, IN STEREO.....all other synths I've heard out there just pan the drum samples where in the Roland, you actually hear the overheads that were used in the sampling process. Just listen for the snare buzz and how wide the sounds are..... it's very good.
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#482659 - 03/20/04 11:09 AM
Re: Drum....Drum....Drum....Drum
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Gothbin
Planeteer
Registered: 11/13/02
Posts: 725
Loc: The Netherlands
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Thanx guys, so basicly it is a good thing to trigger a Roland synth with this srx board, or better buy a 909 and install this board?
Has this 909 a R-Bus? As this would be nice to intergrate to our studio's.
I will take a look in the shops for this machine, and start saving money again.....LOL.
And yes, it is hard to find a good drummer, an excellent sounding kit and then the room to record it in (which should be acousticly right for drums).
For a more fluid feel, I switch of grid in Cubase after initial programming, and slide some notes back and forth (not at random, but well thought about!). This can work nice, together with adding ghost notes from time to time on HH and snare, but it is all extremely time consuming.
My drummer, also owns an old midi drumkit, and I think I'm going to midify some of his grooves to use them as basic building blocks in our projects.
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#482660 - 03/20/04 02:19 PM
Re: Drum....Drum....Drum....Drum
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seetherkev
Space Cadet
Registered: 12/17/03
Posts: 7
Loc: Easton, Pa.
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Hey everyone...I am a pro drummer that works on the east coast among other places. I just got off the road on a 10 month tour with the band Seether (Wind Up Recording Artist) to have my first baby with my wife. I have also recorded and toured with guitarist Greg Howe, Shadow Gallery, June Rich, etc. I will have a website up shortly so people can check out what I've done and my gear (online resume). Long story short, I am building my recording studio as I type...I finish the sheetblock today and drywall starts next week. My plan is to provide custom drumtracks for any situation. Killer tones and performances that are suited for the project. I just wanted everyone to be aware that it is going to happen and I would love to work with ya'll. More details will come as the construction phase approaches completion. I will be able to provide custom drumtracks that will interact with your music (not like loop CD's were you have to write around the groove), I can replace your current tracks that you might not be satisified with, I can provide loop based tracks that are customized for you on drums, percussion or programming. All this is to help the artist with their creation and allow me to play on more projects that would be either to cost heavy to normally do with the traveling and spending big bucks on another studio. I just thought this post would be a great area to share my idea. Hope to work with you all in the future....Kevin Soffera
_________________________
Kevin Soffera
drummerkev@me.com
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#482661 - 03/20/04 02:47 PM
Re: Drum....Drum....Drum....Drum
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GAMBLE
Planeteer
Registered: 02/22/04
Posts: 18894
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Great marketing line Kev! If you need a real drummer I know of about 5 Just kiddin ya.
I think I speak for everyone when I say thanxs, options are always the key and you have provided that.
On another point, someone mentioned the time aspect of programming a "nice" drum track.....well thats half the fun isnt it? (of course not for buisness deadlines) But I truly take pride in knowing that though Im not a drummer that I can learn virtualy everything about drums...ironicaly enough except for actualy playing them.
Un-dr Ill check out the SRX, thanxs a million
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#482662 - 03/20/04 05:05 PM
Re: Drum....Drum....Drum....Drum
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motown59
Planeteer/Artist # 238
Planeteer
Registered: 03/01/04
Posts: 18227
Loc: California
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It seems that if you're on this discussion group that a little 'ole 770 drum machine would be a piece of cake compared to VS 2480 or even an 880 for that matter. Considering how important drum tracks are to your songs, I think putting in 20 hours or more on learning how it works seems insignificant. They're all about the same really. Learning all about the tuning, decay, effects,response envelopes, panning, levels, assigning outputs and creating custom drum kits is only the easy stuff....thinking like a drummer who has dedicated his/her whole life to their craft is another few years worth of learning. Programming patterns and fitting them into songs is really the hardest part. Guess it depends on how important your music is. I have clients who own this kind of stuff but don't have the patience to learn it so they pay me. Dive in and you'll look back at how simple it was ..really.
_________________________
kel
"I love what you guys are trying to do up there" ...from an audience member at one of my gigs.
Gear: Fender Medium pick
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#482663 - 03/20/04 08:34 PM
Re: Drum....Drum....Drum....Drum
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Gothbin
Planeteer
Registered: 11/13/02
Posts: 725
Loc: The Netherlands
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Motown, this is very true. Kev I love your ideas, it is great to work this way!!!
As far as programming goes: it is only half the job, the other half is getting the sound right. Not every drumcomputer/groovebox is capable for all jobs as stated before by me.
As said (also) earlier, I have only a Korg N1 and a Yamaha RM1x as soundsources, so maybe it's better to shop around a bit for me.
For what I think is ideal would be a new sampling groovebox kinda thing, and what I really want to own is a Korg Triton, with enough sample space.
Well, a long wishlist, an empty bankacount and married - what can I say.......LOL
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