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#484362 - 12/10/02 03:22 PM 1680 spdif question
questionerofroland Offline
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Registered: 12/09/02
Posts: 624
Loc: ohio
I have a digitech guitar modler with the spdif output. It has never worked right with the 1680's spdif inputs. Apparantly roland said there is some sort of repair where they replace just one capacitor and it fixes the problem. Has anyone else had this procedure done? Please comment on what Your experiences were and if it ultimately fixed things for You.
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#484363 - 12/10/02 04:43 PM Re: 1680 spdif question
Popmann Offline
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Registered: 05/23/02
Posts: 32998
Loc: Twangville, TN
Does any other SPDIF work? That sounds suspicious to replace a part to work with a CERTAIN SPDIF device. If that's the case, I think I'd get something done to the digitech.

My SPDIF (both coax and optical) have always worked...

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#484364 - 12/10/02 05:00 PM Re: 1680 spdif question
questionerofroland Offline
Planeteer


Registered: 12/09/02
Posts: 624
Loc: ohio
Yes everything but this digitech (johnson actually but made by digitech)amp modeler works digitally. According to people at roland there is a "replacement capacitor" update. I believe this issue only affects the 1680 and not the newer ones 1880-1824. I'd be really cureous who else has had this problem and if the capacitor fixed worked.
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#484365 - 12/10/02 05:44 PM Re: 1680 spdif question
flatcat Administrator Offline
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Registered: 07/11/01
Posts: 29611
Loc: Westborough, MA, USA
I've used my 1680's coax inputs successfully with a CD player/recorder and with an ART DI/O. I haven't tried it with my J-Station, though.

This sounds weird to me too. Wow.
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#484366 - 12/10/02 05:52 PM Re: 1680 spdif question
questionerofroland Offline
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Registered: 12/09/02
Posts: 624
Loc: ohio
Flatcat,
I'd be interested to see if You could replicate the problem. The three things better about the j-station over pod were lower price, some acoustic sims, and spdif output. Well I was suprised the spdif didn't connect. Roland refered me to digitech, digitech refered me to Roland....Back and forth for a week. Finally I found out about this "unpublicized recall"(capacitor fix) or whatever You want to call it. I had other things on my mind and never got it done. Since I will probably be keeping the 16 for another year or 2, I might want to get it fixed. If You can replicate the issue let me know.

[ 12-10-2002: Message edited by: questionerofroland ]

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#484367 - 12/10/02 06:40 PM Re: 1680 spdif question
flatcat Administrator Offline
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Registered: 07/11/01
Posts: 29611
Loc: Westborough, MA, USA
Questioner - I'll see if I can reproduce it tonight on the J-Station. I should add that the J-Station I have is brandy-new, so it might be a moot point for me. But I'll give it a shot and see what happens.

td
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The internet, and the whole technology sector on which it floats, feels like a giant organ for bullshittery—for upscaling human access to speech and for amplifying lies. - Ian Bogost

Professor Truth T. Sweetness says,"Mind your manners!"

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#484368 - 12/10/02 07:02 PM Re: 1680 spdif question
questionerofroland Offline
Planeteer


Registered: 12/09/02
Posts: 624
Loc: ohio
Ok,
I just looked at the dust gathering j-station. On the bottom is a sticker said mfg. in april of 00' so it is couple of years old. If Yours is newer and works it sounds like a Johnson problem, in which case I might be stuck with a bad one. I have a dbx preamp btw that was made in Jan 00 and it does work ok with the 1680.

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#484369 - 12/10/02 08:44 PM Re: 1680 spdif question
Ray Link Offline
Planeteer


Registered: 07/16/99
Posts: 222
Does the search work these days? Lots of posts on J-station (among other SPDIF devices) not locking. It is a Roland problem, they are out of spec or something on older 1680s and some things lock and some don't. I have never gotten the repair but to lock my Tascam DA-20 I have to sync and then the "digital in unlock" warning comes up. If I let it sit that way for about 10-20 minutes it locks and stays locked. I am not so sure this will work with the J-station.
Note that my ancient Magnavox 476 CD player locks instantly every time.
-Ray

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#484370 - 12/10/02 09:14 PM Re: 1680 spdif question
questionerofroland Offline
Planeteer


Registered: 12/09/02
Posts: 624
Loc: ohio
Ray,
You seem very knowledgable. Do You have any knowledge of this "capacitor replacemnt" fix? Maybe I should just get it done, it cant make anything worse can it?

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#484371 - 12/11/02 01:34 AM Re: 1680 spdif question
armchair Offline
Space Cadet


Registered: 11/19/02
Posts: 29
Loc: saskatoon canada
thanx guys for clearing up my problems too
i thought i was just being dumb
my 1680 has never locked properly to my line 6 pod pro............
if this cap update is not too much.....i will consider it

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#484372 - 12/11/02 06:38 PM Re: 1680 spdif question
questionerofroland Offline
Planeteer


Registered: 12/09/02
Posts: 624
Loc: ohio
Flatcat,
I'm sitting here in ice covered midwest wondering if You could replicate the spdif problem or if it went to digital in lock like a charm?

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#484373 - 12/11/02 07:28 PM Re: 1680 spdif question
flatcat Administrator Offline
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Registered: 07/11/01
Posts: 29611
Loc: Westborough, MA, USA
I'm sorry gang - I never quite got up to the 3rd floor last night - tonight for sure, though.
_________________________
The internet, and the whole technology sector on which it floats, feels like a giant organ for bullshittery—for upscaling human access to speech and for amplifying lies. - Ian Bogost

Professor Truth T. Sweetness says,"Mind your manners!"

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#484374 - 12/11/02 07:35 PM Re: 1680 spdif question
axeman Offline
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Registered: 04/01/01
Posts: 3475
Loc: 2480's mother board
I had a line 6 pod pro and it would never maintain sync with my 1880 or my 2480. The J Station and others never had a problem, only the Line 6. It would lock but after anywhere from 10 second to about 45 seconds, POP! I sold the line 6, not exactly for that but it is gone.
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#484375 - 12/11/02 07:40 PM Re: 1680 spdif question
woodshedstudio Offline
Planeteer/Artist # 82
Planeteer


Registered: 03/14/02
Posts: 336
I just tried my J-Station into the DIG1 of the VS and it worked perfectly... One thing I've found with the digital ins on the VS is this; make the connections before you power up the VS, also have the external device (j-station, in this case) powered up before VS. Remember to set the proper DIG IN on the System menu.

BTW, I'm using a stock 1680 (about three years old) with no modifications.

[ 12-11-2002: Message edited by: woodshedstudio ]

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#484376 - 12/11/02 08:10 PM Re: 1680 spdif question
questionerofroland Offline
Planeteer


Registered: 12/09/02
Posts: 624
Loc: ohio
Woodshed,
You wouldn't happen to be in Michigan would You?

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#484377 - 12/11/02 08:47 PM Re: 1680 spdif question
Ray Link Offline
Planeteer


Registered: 07/16/99
Posts: 222
dear Q,
No I don't expect it will make things worse to get the update. Others have said it works and later units don't have a problem (I think). I have not had it done because I don't want the hassle of sending my 1680 to sit with Roland's repair. I think Roland does this one for free since they realize that they made the design error (check on this of course). I think it depends on how much you want to digitally go in with things that just won't sync.
Thanks,
Ray

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#484378 - 12/11/02 09:07 PM Re: 1680 spdif question
woodshedstudio Offline
Planeteer/Artist # 82
Planeteer


Registered: 03/14/02
Posts: 336
No, questionerofroland, I am not in michigan... should I be??

I'm stuck in NY (...the state not the city)

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#484379 - 12/11/02 09:29 PM Re: 1680 spdif question
questionerofroland Offline
Planeteer


Registered: 12/09/02
Posts: 624
Loc: ohio
woodshed,
There is another woodshedstudios operating in Detroit, Michigan I did some recording with. I thought it would be a pretty big coincidence as he never used Roland stuff anyways. I think he is still in business, I guess You never heard of him until now.

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#484380 - 12/11/02 09:35 PM Re: 1680 spdif question
El_Gorgonzola Offline
Planeteer


Registered: 11/21/01
Posts: 875
Loc: netherlands
Ok guys....... time for a stupid question I guess..... I have a Jstation. It has an SPDIF output. Should I use that to connect it with the VS1680 when recording ? what type of cable should I use ?
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#484381 - 12/11/02 09:43 PM Re: 1680 spdif question
axeman Offline
Planeteer


Registered: 04/01/01
Posts: 3475
Loc: 2480's mother board
El G, you don't have to use it obviously. If you do you need a coaxial cable, out from the J station input to the recorder. In your utilities menu check coaxial. Sometimes I like it digitally, depending on the setting. Other times, I prefer analog connections.
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axeman


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#484382 - 12/11/02 09:44 PM Re: 1680 spdif question
questionerofroland Offline
Planeteer


Registered: 12/09/02
Posts: 624
Loc: ohio
El Gorgonzola,
You should use a digital coax cable designed for digital spidif (hosa, monster etc.) it is thicker, different impdedance then std. rca, and more expensive. The benefit to connecting thru spdif is a cleaner recording of the performance (less noise due to bypassing the 1680). Let me know if You also get it to work as I have had no luck.

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#484383 - 12/11/02 10:20 PM Re: 1680 spdif question
El_Gorgonzola Offline
Planeteer


Registered: 11/21/01
Posts: 875
Loc: netherlands
Ok guys let me get this straight:

It is better to use the Jstation/VS1680 via SPDIF because it's BETTER but it seems like that's not working ??

_________________________
The Gorgonzolas, Find our latest songs at:
soundclick

Find other stuff at:
www.gorgonzola.nl

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#484384 - 12/11/02 10:29 PM Re: 1680 spdif question
questionerofroland Offline
Planeteer


Registered: 12/09/02
Posts: 624
Loc: ohio
El gorgonzola,
digital output and input results in a slightly "cleaner, quieter, clearer" transfer of the sound/performance as it bypasses the 1680s preamps. However, some earlier 1680s won't accept the digital output of some equipment like our j-station. Therefore, Roland has the "capacitor replacement". The only way You will find out if You have one that doesn't work is to try it.
If You go thru the procedure to put it into digital in lock (shift->system button->some other screen-then select internal clock no I believe) and it says digital in unlock You have an older 1680 and need the fix. If it says "digital in lock" You have sucessfully done it and can now record the digital output. Hope that clears it up 4 U.

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#484385 - 12/11/02 10:30 PM Re: 1680 spdif question
axeman Offline
Planeteer


Registered: 04/01/01
Posts: 3475
Loc: 2480's mother board
I don't think better is accurate. Some folks say why chop it up twice. Go analog and let the 2480 convert. I think digital is better sometimes, with some settings. So I use both, at different points.

I don't understand why it isn't working for any user. It should be a very simple connection and then clock assignment on the Roland. Unless, you have different sampling frequencies. The J Station is 44.1 and I don't believe you can adjust, is your 1680 at 44.1? Also, the J Station has a digital output level. What is it set at? Pg 28 of the J Station manual.

Good luck!
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axeman


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#484386 - 12/11/02 11:39 PM Re: 1680 spdif question
woodshedstudio Offline
Planeteer/Artist # 82
Planeteer


Registered: 03/14/02
Posts: 336
 Quote:
(shift->system button->some other screen-then select internal clock no I believe)


Q of R, I'm not following you there? On the SYSTEM screen you should set MasterClock to DIGIN 1. If the J-station is connected and powered up (again, before you power up the roland) you should be able to get digital lock! I don't make any other special settings on the J-Station or the 1680 for this to work...

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#484387 - 12/12/02 01:22 AM Re: 1680 spdif question
questionerofroland Offline
Planeteer


Registered: 12/09/02
Posts: 624
Loc: ohio
Woodshed,
I don't remember exactly which sequence of buttons to push to get to the screen cos I do it so often. The main point was I could never get j-station to digital lock but all other pieces of gear I could(tascam us428 ok, lexicon ok, dbx pre ok etc).

I wasn't aware the j-station had a digital level setting the ppl. I talked to at digitech had nothing to say about this feature (or if they did I forgot as it's been over a year since I've messed with the J-station setup).

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#484388 - 12/12/02 01:52 AM Re: 1680 spdif question
flatcat Administrator Offline
Loquacious Planeteer


Registered: 07/11/01
Posts: 29611
Loc: Westborough, MA, USA
OK - here's my couple of cents.

My J-Station to my 1680 worked fine via coax. I played for a good ten minutes. The lock was immediately established and was not disrupted.

The J-Station was on and the digital connection was made before I turned on the 1680.

The Level knob on the J-Station controls the signal being sent via the coax output, not the Master Volume knob.

I don't know a lot about digital stuff, but it wouldn't surprise me if you were recording at anything other than 44.1 kHz there might be a problem.

The key sequence on the 1680 to enable the digital inputs is System > SystemParam1 > Master Clock. Set this to DIGIN1 - that's the Coaxial input.

MAKE SURE THE VOLUME IS DOWN WHEN YOU DO THIS. THE POP SUCKS!

I tried this on a tune I've been working on that's a 44.1 kHz MTP tune. Those settings you set when you create the song. The digital clock was already set to DIGIN1.

You should definitely go through your J-Station if you don't have any other digital I/O device. It's a 24 bit converter. The better sound you'll hear is because the analog signal is being converted to 24 bits in the J-Station instead of 20 bits in the VS, where the A/D converters are only 20 bit. The only real drawback is that it's a mono in and stereo out.

And if you haven't done so, you should upgrade the J-Station software to version 2.0. I bought mine new, so 2.0 was on there already. Previous versions of the J-Station software always enabled I think an amp sim. The software upgrade allows you to select a patch with no amp sim and no speaker sim, which means you can use the J-Station as a digital converter. I bet you could use it as an effects send too, now that I think about it.

I'm not sure if this answers every question - maybe it's a problem with the device, or maybe the new version of the J-Station software will fix it. This thing about the connector or whateveritis sounds a little odd to me.

I don't know - I'm no expert. This is just what I figured out. YMMV. Good luck!

For the record - I love them both (my 1680 and my J-Station)!
_________________________
The internet, and the whole technology sector on which it floats, feels like a giant organ for bullshittery—for upscaling human access to speech and for amplifying lies. - Ian Bogost

Professor Truth T. Sweetness says,"Mind your manners!"

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#484389 - 12/12/02 02:28 AM Re: 1680 spdif question
questionerofroland Offline
Planeteer


Registered: 12/09/02
Posts: 624
Loc: ohio
Flatcat,
I didn't konw that the level knob controlled the strength of the spdif output. Did You have this level knob set in the middle while making the connection to the 1680? I will have to try one last time to get this to work now before I resort to the capacitor fix.

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#484390 - 12/12/02 11:18 AM Re: 1680 spdif question
flatcat Administrator Offline
Loquacious Planeteer


Registered: 07/11/01
Posts: 29611
Loc: Westborough, MA, USA
Questioner - I had it set probably around 1 o'clock. But to see what it did, I turned it all the way off and then all the way up.

I'm looking at the J-Station manual right this second (it's available at their ftp site and will load to your browser if you have the Acrobat Reader plugin), and it says that the Level control just sets the individual level of whatever effect was recently activated. The last effect I had activated was a preset amp sim, so maybe that's why.

In the section about setting the digital level, the manual says there's a Deep Edit parameter that allows you to set that. That's on page 33 of the PDF manual.

Hope this helps...
_________________________
The internet, and the whole technology sector on which it floats, feels like a giant organ for bullshittery—for upscaling human access to speech and for amplifying lies. - Ian Bogost

Professor Truth T. Sweetness says,"Mind your manners!"

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#484391 - 12/14/02 03:02 PM Re: 1680 spdif question
McThrasher Offline
Planeteer


Registered: 04/19/99
Posts: 2488
Just out of curiosity, I just tried my J-Station with my 880EX. It locks temporarily, then there's a very short, high pitched click, then nothing. After a few seconds the guitar sound returns and I see a "Digital In Lock". A few seconds later, it unlocks again.

If I don't play, it seems to remain locked.

I do remember reading posts about this a couple of years ago and it was a Roland problem. I never worried about it because I didn't think the digital in was really necessary for a guitar or bass.

For the record:
1) Yes, I'm using a 75ohm cable.
2) I have successfully synched the VS to my previous computer, so it's not something that happens to all digital devices (from the old posts, I remember it mostly affecting J-Stations and some Pods).
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#484392 - 12/14/02 03:13 PM Re: 1680 spdif question
questionerofroland Offline
Planeteer


Registered: 12/09/02
Posts: 624
Loc: ohio
Mcthrasher,
Wish I could help You with the 880 but my only experiences are with the 1680. Perhaps there is a capacitor fix for the 880 too??? It might be worth checking out.

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#484393 - 12/14/02 03:49 PM Re: 1680 spdif question
McThrasher Offline
Planeteer


Registered: 04/19/99
Posts: 2488
questionerofroland,

Did they quote you a price? If it only affects my J, I'm not sure it would be worth it. However, it would be disconcerting to find that it's a problem with a piece of equipment purchased in the future.
_________________________
Before you criticize someone, walk a mile in his shoes. That way, if he gets angry, he's a mile away and barefoot.

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#484394 - 12/14/02 04:09 PM Re: 1680 spdif question
questionerofroland Offline
Planeteer


Registered: 12/09/02
Posts: 624
Loc: ohio
mc,
I believe it is free or nomial cost. However, due to the time away with machine (could be 6 weeks?) and possibility they might mess something up, I have not gotten it done. Again for me only the j-station was effected so this is why I have not bothered with the repair!

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#484395 - 12/14/02 07:42 PM Re: 1680 spdif question
Karl Offline
Planeteer


Registered: 04/17/99
Posts: 663
Loc: St. Petersburg, Florida, USA
'Tis true what you say about the spdif on your 1680 not recognizing some digital inputs. It only affects the first 1680s released by Roland, and there is a fix for it which involves a capacitor.

I have one of the older 1680's and am unable to use the digital out on my J-Station to the spdif input on the 1680 so I use it analog. I would have the fix done, but don't want to wait several weeks for it. At one point I took the unit to an authorized Roland repair center in Tampa. The technician hadn't heard of the problem, but called Roland while I was there and was enlightened. Unfortunately, the turnaround time even with the local guys doing the repair was lengthy, so I decided to live with it.

There was a long thread on this a couple of years ago... you might try a search, although it might be too long ago to dig up.

BTW, I use the digital out on the J-Station directly into the PC digital input with no problems, so I don't think it's the fault of the J.

I'm pretty sure different (expensive) cables aren't going to make a difference, as I spent a bundle on different ones trying to correct this problem a couple of years ago.

Roland knows about this problem; they're just giving you the runaround, or you're talking to the wrong person.

Good luck,

Karl

[ 12-14-2002: Message edited by: Karl ]

[ 12-14-2002: Message edited by: Karl ]

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#484396 - 12/16/02 04:20 PM Re: 1680 spdif question
Robert Parent Offline
Planeteer


Registered: 11/15/99
Posts: 182
Loc: Mpls, MN
Hi,

Does anyone here know what the hardware fix is with the older 1680's SPDIF port? I have an older unit (according to the serial number) but really don't want to sent it off to Roland. I have no problem soldering or cutting things apart if need be.

My Tascam DA20 has the problem mentioned above and fixing it would be sooooo nice.

Thanks,

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