#500579 - 11/22/05 03:12 PM
Cut & Paste
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pjblues
Planeteer
Registered: 11/16/03
Posts: 32
Loc: Ohio
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Ok, I am just about ready to switch to computer recording versus the 2400. I am fairly new at this but cutting and pasting should not be this hard. I cannot get the technique down. Is there a way to nudge a paste into position? I always seem to come up short and there is a gap between where something is suppossed to start. Ireally could use some help on this. I am ready to sell my 2400 and go computer based.
Thanks.
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P J B
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#500580 - 11/23/05 04:49 AM
Re: Cut & Paste
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mountainman2
Space Cadet
Registered: 01/04/05
Posts: 2
Loc: Texas
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Hey, I have had the same problem cutting and pasting with my 2400. I bought the DVD Users Manual that Roland sells which says (same as in my manual) that the best way to insure easier editing (drag and drop) is to begin your project using tempo maps and the metronome as a tick track to keep all band members in time. The DVD says that it is then much easier to drag and drop phrases and regions when using beats of a measure to help you figure out where the new audio needs to be dropped. I have yet to figure out how get the metronome to edit correctly so that I can build my song using it. You can also edit tracks by using the grid method, but I really haven't had time to delve into this yet.
The manual says that you can use edit points FROM/TO that will help you to move a phrase to a new location. I have used this extensively on other songs that were recorded before the tempo map or metronome were set up. While it is tedious to place FROM/TO markers, they do work.
Hope this helps some. If not email me back and maybe there is something else that can be done.
One newbie to another-I feel your pain.
mountainman2
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#500581 - 11/23/05 05:53 AM
Re: Cut & Paste
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itchybrother
Artist # 454
Planeteer
Registered: 11/16/03
Posts: 1176
Loc: BongoCongo
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pjb, the 2400 is great for what you want to do, and there are several ways and combinations to cut and paste. i suggest using the mouse for most everything. so fast, no work. play around with something you arent trying to save until you get the hang of it. 2 things. always use beats and measures. i never use the grid, some do. its not the metronome, its tempo map. just set your bpm and that will control the beat/measure time. this can now master an external drum machine (metronome) or sequencer. now you can copy or move by measure like a sequencer. heres another hint. use the mouse, set where it immediately executes, and it is fast. with phrase, you just click and drag. with region, set parameters by dragging the mouse from start to end, then grab it. last help, when you grab audio and drag it to a new location(or copy), watch for one of several symbols that light up when you have the audio at just the right point to paste, and simply let go. perfect everytime. i use the one that looks like a p, cant remember now but i think that represents the start point. also, once you paste, if something is a little off, use the trim/extend edit, again with the mouse. hope this helps, its all in the printed manual that is often maligned.
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#500582 - 11/23/05 01:17 PM
Re: Cut & Paste
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teknail2004
Planeteer
Registered: 11/27/04
Posts: 427
Loc: Australia
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There are some great tips for you above, and should help you out alot.
I used to have trouble copying and pasting until I understood how to use FROM,TO,IN and OUT points... Now you may know all of this but it may be worth it for someone else reading..
"FROM"...IS the "TIME ANCHOR" within a phrase or region..( FROM POINT > would most likely be a down beat )
"TO"...IS the location to which you want to move the "TIME ANCHOR" TO. This is what you want to concentrate on to get your precise/accurate source and destination location..VERY IMPORTANT to understand ..
The IN and OUT points simply give you the BEGINNING and the END of the region or phrase you want copied..It is simply a portion of data to be copied and has nothing to do with DESTINATION...The only thing that matters is that the "FROM" point is at the beginning of, or is in between these IN & OUT points some where.
I have a 2480 so I'm not sure if the 2400 is the same,this is an example of region copy and paste via the VGA monitor.. I put my time line over the place I want to copy from and press IN & FROM (note IN and FROM >beginning and anchor), then I put the timeline over the end of what I want to copy and press OUT. I now put the timeline over the point I want to paste TO and press TO.. There should be Edit flags at these points. Next I use the drop down menu at the top and go to Region copy...Open up and in the box you will see your, IN OUT FROM TO (EDIT POINTS) See that they are already set for you..NOW which track do you want to do this edit to. I'm not at the machine but look down the bottom of that window and you will see a tab which will move you to the next window which will require you to SELECT which (source)track your copying from and track you want it copied to (destination),now this is usually the same track,but it can also be a another V-track or another track altogether...select what you want execute and it should all fall into place..
This may all seem long winded but it is so easy to get accurate edits with using the IN,OUT,FROM and TO Flags/pointers once you get used to using them.
Cheers Leo
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#500583 - 11/23/05 03:10 PM
Re: Cut & Paste
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LakeStone Karl
Planeteer
Registered: 06/26/02
Posts: 15821
Loc: Eastern PA, USA
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teknail.....
FWIW, the FROM point does not have to be anywhere inside the IN/OUT points. For sure, it usually is, but it does not have to be.
When dealing with PHRASES, the IN and OUT settings are not required. PHRASE MOVE and PHRASE COPY work on the ENTIRE PHRASE.
If the original recording was NOT performed to a Tempo Map, I'll usually move FROM one Kick Drum Beat TO another Kick Drum Beat. They are pretty easy to pick out, even in a stereo drum mix from a drum machine.
Suppose there is a bass line leading up to a downbeat, and the bass player nailed it once and muffed it another time. Set your IN point to the beginning of the lead-in section, and your OUT point sometime after ther downbeat. Find the kick drum beat on the downbeat that the good notes lead up to, and set your FROM. Go to the kick drum beat on the downbeat that was muffed, and set your TO point.
So, you're gonna move the bass track notes between IN and OUT, and you're gonna move them FROM one kick drum beat TO another kick drum beat.
Don't forget, AFTER you have moved the REGION, you can switch to PHRASE mode and adjust the length of the MOVED PHRASE to make a seamless edit! Switch to WAVE VIEW, and grab the edge of the re-located PHRASE to make it longer or shorter. If you make it LONGER, the audio from the original location is shown in the new location, even audio that was BEFORE your IN point or AFTER your OUT point! Keep this in mind, and your editing chores will get a lot more efficient!
BTW, if you use WAVE VIEW to find the kick drum beats, you can really get precise edits!
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#500584 - 11/23/05 04:04 PM
Re: Cut & Paste
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medouglas
Planeteer
Registered: 04/30/05
Posts: 142
Loc: saxophone
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Wow!! You guys are theeee best!!
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#500585 - 11/23/05 05:39 PM
Re: Cut & Paste
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pjblues
Planeteer
Registered: 11/16/03
Posts: 32
Loc: Ohio
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Thanks everyone. These all seem like good points. I am going to now go try these techniques.
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P J B
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#500586 - 11/24/05 09:52 AM
Re: Cut & Paste
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teknail2004
Planeteer
Registered: 11/27/04
Posts: 427
Loc: Australia
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Originally posted by LakeStone Karl: Don't forget, AFTER you have moved the REGION, you can switch to PHRASE mode and adjust the length of the MOVED PHRASE to make a seamless edit! Switch to WAVE VIEW, and grab the edge of the re-located PHRASE to make it longer or shorter. If you make it LONGER, the audio from the original location is shown in the new location, even audio that was BEFORE your IN point or AFTER your OUT point! Keep this in mind, and your editing chores will get a lot more efficient! Lakestone,Your the man... This tip is awesome, I learnt this from you some time ago...And I learnt from you to use it in conjuction with the phrase parameters and adjust the fade ins and outs etc..
Your right about my IN and OUTs...Yeah it mainly relates to Region edits..(not phrases)..Sorry if I confuse anyone...
Cool tip to change back to phrase after messing with regions too...
HEY PJblues..... About the nudging the phrase.... try using Itchybrothers tip about the Position Cursors..If your slightly off mark place any of the Edit flags/position pointers at the precise moment it SHOULD BE at and pick up the phrase and drag the phrase while watching for the appropriate closed hand cursor..IE,if it was the IN flag/edit point then as you move/nudge the phrase the closed hand would show a black RH flag right as it passes over the point so you know to drop it there.. Check out the different Position Cursor symbols in your manual. I have so much to learn about the VS that any other form of recorder would still mean learning.
Cheers Leo
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#1826617 - 12/27/22 09:32 AM
Re: Cut & Paste
[Re: LakeStone Karl]
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gre
Planeteer
Registered: 08/20/11
Posts: 147
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Hard to believe this thread is 17 years old but your post helped me out big time with the stretching in phrase mode. I couldn't get the track copy just right and had a little click thing happening. The dragging made it seemless. Glad these old threads are still alive and goes to show many years later can still help people. thanks man.
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