#1570388 - 05/02/18 10:19 PM
Gain Staging with the 2480
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powermac
Planeteer
Registered: 02/21/16
Posts: 396
Loc: Houston, Tx
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Was hoping to get some feedback on how some of you gain stage with the Roland. Also, are any of you doing multiple busses with gain staging and what's your method?
I know how to Stage gain, but still don't know a lot about the Rolands "-DB" strengths.
By the way, I'm asking in relation to 16 bit mode. I recorded a few songs at 16 bit when I first got the 2480 and am ready to get the songs going.
Edited by powermac (05/02/18 10:20 PM)
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#1570389 - 05/02/18 10:23 PM
Re: Gain Staging with the 2480
[Re: powermac]
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uptildawn
Planeteer
Registered: 12/15/01
Posts: 9073
Loc: on land
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Don't overthink it.
Just make each output level hot enough to "drive" the next input so it sounds good, but avoids any sort of distortion and/or clipping (audibly), unless it's meant to be distorted - then avoid clipping at all costs (digital clipping = BAD!).
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uptildawn
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#1570391 - 05/02/18 10:33 PM
Re: Gain Staging with the 2480
[Re: uptildawn]
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powermac
Planeteer
Registered: 02/21/16
Posts: 396
Loc: Houston, Tx
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Thanks. I understand the digital concept, but thought I might get some "sweet spot" advice. You know like, Where are you peaking before bouncing to a buss mix while allowing headroom for mastering? Are you using the Rec ATT to manipulate?
Hope that makes sense.
Edited by powermac (05/02/18 10:39 PM)
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#1570404 - 05/03/18 12:23 AM
Re: Gain Staging with the 2480
[Re: powermac]
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uptildawn
Planeteer
Registered: 12/15/01
Posts: 9073
Loc: on land
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The 1680 never recorded at high enough levels before clipping to suite my tastes, so I always just pushed it until it sounded bad and then backed off the offending level until it cleaned up again. I'm sure the 2480 has quite an edge on the 1680 tech level...... converters are better, lots of internal workings are better (in some way or another). Effects are the same, even if you're using the 3 cards, since 1680 users could take some advantage there too. Working on the pc has been a very different experience for me than the 1680, but the overall processes are still the same. I stand by my earlier suggestions, even now...... make an output as hot as sounds appealing, stop and back off a hair when it sounds bad - step through all gain stages in the same way...
I guess for me there never has been a "sweet spot". Seems like you're thinking in analog boards and reel to reel tape terms. It was all about that then (and for those who have perpetuated that realm).
I wish I'd had more experience with tape. I think it would have given me more appreciation for all the fuss. For me tape was nice, but it was a lot of fuss and frustration. Digital, for as not-analog as it can sound, it cured so much of the fuss and frustration, I just never bothered to completely embrace tape like some of my older relatives and friends.
Guess I'm not much help.
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uptildawn
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#1570513 - 05/03/18 10:35 PM
Re: Gain Staging with the 2480
[Re: uptildawn]
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powermac
Planeteer
Registered: 02/21/16
Posts: 396
Loc: Houston, Tx
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LOL! You nailed it. I worked in analogue for 20 plus years, and picked up a few bad habits where digital is concerned.
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#1570734 - 05/06/18 07:40 PM
Re: Gain Staging with the 2480
[Re: powermac]
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Mutley58
Planeteer
Registered: 03/15/03
Posts: 197
Loc: Conestoga, PA, USA
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Anything greater that -12dBFS uses all available word length (bits) in digital recording regardless of word length (16 or 24 bit). Anything above that is just dynamic range headroom.
Try to shoot for signals which land in the range from -12 to -6 on the meters. You'll usually always be safe there. It's not advantageous to try to run signals as hot as you would when recording in the analog realm since you're only decreasing the available dynamic range. You can't increase the signal-to-noise ratio above -12dBFS as you would in analog gear which is the primary reason for running it hot in most cases.
_________________________
Mutley58
"A bonafide rock-guitar playing relic."
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#1570755 - 05/07/18 12:23 AM
Re: Gain Staging with the 2480
[Re: Mutley58]
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powermac
Planeteer
Registered: 02/21/16
Posts: 396
Loc: Houston, Tx
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Thanks Mutley... So I'm assuming your suggesting bringing the level up in the mastering process?
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#1570757 - 05/07/18 01:52 AM
Re: Gain Staging with the 2480
[Re: powermac]
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Mutley58
Planeteer
Registered: 03/15/03
Posts: 197
Loc: Conestoga, PA, USA
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Yep!
_________________________
Mutley58
"A bonafide rock-guitar playing relic."
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#1570809 - 05/07/18 09:04 PM
Re: Gain Staging with the 2480
[Re: Mutley58]
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powermac
Planeteer
Registered: 02/21/16
Posts: 396
Loc: Houston, Tx
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Thanks man!
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#1575600 - 06/24/18 12:28 PM
Re: Gain Staging with the 2480
[Re: Mutley58]
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haysonics
Planeteer
Registered: 12/10/13
Posts: 80
Loc: Sydney, Australia
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Anything greater that -12dBFS uses all available word length (bits) in digital recording regardless of word length (16 or 24 bit). Anything above that is just dynamic range headroom.
All the Bits together represent the dynamic range. Headroom is just how much space below 0dBFS you allow (determinded by what level you track at) in case you stuff up.
I work in 16Bit and (just like 24Bit) each bit equals 6dB of dynamic range (eg 16 bits x 6dB = 96dB). In 16Bit a signal at say -13dBFS uses 14 Bits to capture all the intended sound. I understand I am still recording 16 bits as the word length is fixed and bit 15 and 16 are zeroes (blank) as there is no voltage level to represent.
I wonder why you think -12dBFS maxes out your bits? I often track with peaks as high as -6dBFS in 16Bit. If you use up all your bits by -12dBFS then the 2480 would have to truncate signals above -12dBFS. That would be digital hard limiting and I would be surprised to learn your 2480 does that. I am confident my VS2000 doesn't. And RDAC (which you use) is based on time so I would be surprised to learn RDAC is involved in any imagined -12dBFS ceiling.
In the days of analogue consoles and tape, headroom was about how far beyond +4bBu you could go before you could hear distortion. The analogue inputs on my VS2000 distort at +20dBu. Knowing this, on the input mixer Roland have calibrated +20dBu to read as 0 dBFS which is why you should always monitor incoming signals on the input mixer.
I suspect you are thinking either in terms of SPL and what we can tolerate before going deaf (a hearing and amplification issue) or in terms of the maximum dynamic range of a piece of music such as the 1812 Overture (a production issue).
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